Author Topic: 1st round NHC results  (Read 27830 times)

Offline bo

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #195 on: May 11, 2012, 09:15:30 AM »
I agree with you and the process should be sped up to eliminate that problem. There should be enough beer submitted and be judged in a timely manner for it to really be a fair contest. Just my opinion.

I had no idea this is how it worked.
Get me 800 or so judges in a single location and we'll do the entire thing in one day.

I'm of the opinion, if you can't do it right, don't do it at all. This seems very unfair from a contest standpoint.
I am of the opinion that if you can't do it in an ideal way, do your best.

All of the second round beers are judged on the same day.  Since the beers may be rebrewed or tweaked, that means the first round sites are essentially regional qualifiers for a style of beer.  For a competition this size and with the limited judging pool, that is as fair as it can be.

I understand the enormity of the competition, but I still don't think that the judges comments should be given to those that qualify for extended rounds. To me, that implies a do-over.

I understand what your saying, but judging is still a very subjective process.  I've entered the exact same beer in different competitions, and the judging sheets said wildly different things.

And I agree with you, but with all the discrepancies I hear about judging on here, is a winning beer really always a winner or just a lucky day. 

In any event, I still don't think entrants should be given comments during the judging process. It also sounds as though some people get theirs early and have ample rebrewing time, while others don't.  How can that be fair?

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #196 on: May 11, 2012, 09:48:07 AM »
And I agree with you, but with all the discrepancies I hear about judging on here, is a winning beer really always a winner or just a lucky day. 

In any event, I still don't think entrants should be given comments during the judging process. It also sounds as though some people get theirs early and have ample rebrewing time, while others don't.  How can that be fair?
If you win in a competition I think it is a combination of a good beer and luck.  That's just the way it is.  In my opinion, a single medal doesn't automatically make you a good brewer, but repeatedly getting medals does.  Kind of like home runs, Babe Ruth didn't get one every time he stepped up to the plate, but he got a lot over time.

As for the comments, maybe it isn't fair that some people have more time than others.  We could theoretically hold all of the comments until everyone is ready to send them out, but I think that would irritate a lot more people than would be happy about it.  Remember, people can always enter the same beer in a different contest, get their score sheets, then re-brew for the second round without even seeing the comments they got in the first round.

I think what makes it fair is that everyone has the same opportunity.  And doing as the judges suggest won't necessarily make your beer better for the next set of judges, they might have preferred the first beer.  To some extent, entering competitions is a crap shoot for that very reason.  Also keep in mind that many judges are boneheads.  A friend of mine got a score sheet back from the first round that had 5 words on it - there were more words listing the judges name and the style of beer.  You could just as easily get a densely written sheet where the judge is completely wrong.  Or you could get sheets where the judges sound like they tasted completely different beers out of the same bottle - it's happened to me . . . how does one judge find the beer bone dry and the other cloyingly sweet?
Tom Schmidlin

Offline bo

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #197 on: May 11, 2012, 09:51:52 AM »
And I agree with you, but with all the discrepancies I hear about judging on here, is a winning beer really always a winner or just a lucky day. 

In any event, I still don't think entrants should be given comments during the judging process. It also sounds as though some people get theirs early and have ample rebrewing time, while others don't.  How can that be fair?
If you win in a competition I think it is a combination of a good beer and luck.  That's just the way it is.  In my opinion, a single medal doesn't automatically make you a good brewer, but repeatedly getting medals does.  Kind of like home runs, Babe Ruth didn't get one every time he stepped up to the plate, but he got a lot over time.

As for the comments, maybe it isn't fair that some people have more time than others.  We could theoretically hold all of the comments until everyone is ready to send them out, but I think that would irritate a lot more people than would be happy about it.  Remember, people can always enter the same beer in a different contest, get their score sheets, then re-brew for the second round without even seeing the comments they got in the first round.

I think what makes it fair is that everyone has the same opportunity.  And doing as the judges suggest won't necessarily make your beer better for the next set of judges, they might have preferred the first beer.  To some extent, entering competitions is a crap shoot for that very reason.  Also keep in mind that many judges are boneheads.  A friend of mine got a score sheet back from the first round that had 5 words on it - there were more words listing the judges name and the style of beer.  You could just as easily get a densely written sheet where the judge is completely wrong.  Or you could get sheets where the judges sound like they tasted completely different beers out of the same bottle - it's happened to me . . . how does one judge find the beer bone dry and the other cloyingly sweet?

"how does one judge find the beer bone dry and the other cloyingly sweet?"

That would certainly be the question of the day. :D

Isn't there an assigned head judge that reviews the comments for consistency?

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #198 on: May 11, 2012, 09:55:43 AM »
Isn't there an assigned head judge that reviews the comments for consistency?
No, that would take too long.  When I judge we compare scores and maybe chat briefly about the beer (less than 30 seconds most of the time) and then move on to the next one.  I'll also scan my partners sheet for completeness and addition errors, but that's it.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline thomasbarnes

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #199 on: May 11, 2012, 06:55:45 PM »

A friend of mine got a score sheet back from the first round that had 5 words on it - there were more words listing the judges name and the style of beer.


There's a solution to that problem - complain to the competition organizer. That's unacceptably shoddy judging.

Offline thomasbarnes

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #200 on: May 11, 2012, 06:58:19 PM »
Question: are you allowed to fine tune your recipe if you brew a new batch for the final round? I doubt i will advance but am curious nonetheless.

Yes. Absolutely. As Martin pointed out, some styles lose their luster very quickly. If it's a low-alcohol (4% or less), a wheat beer, or one where hop aroma and flavor should be fresh and prominent (e.g., IIPA) you should definitely consider rebrewing.

Offline thomasbarnes

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #201 on: May 11, 2012, 07:02:04 PM »
As a fairly active judge who lives out in the sticks, I'd love to see a small stipend that would at least cover gas.  I could see a higher fee being used to both raise revenue and lower entry numbers.  Not sure how expensive you'd have to make an entry to accomplish the latter.  After all we've demonstrated we have some disposable income just through our brewing hobby.

That would seriously drive up the entry fees. Some competitions do partially comp. for mileage, however at least for out-of-town or out-of-state judges (e.g., Indiana State Fair).

Offline thomasbarnes

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #202 on: May 11, 2012, 07:10:47 PM »

+250 on that one.  Got my score sheets back on Monday and was pretty disappointed in the quality.  One sheet had only 5 written words on the entire page, another had 1 or 2 entire sections of the score sheet completely blank.  One judges started a sentence and didn't even bother to finish it before skipping to the final score.  Lots of one line descriptions for Flavor and Aroma.  Not what I expected from our National Competition and certainly not worth the $10 entry fee.


A big competition is no excuse for crummy judging. Complain to the competition organizer. You definitely didn't get your money's worth.

Offline thomasbarnes

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #203 on: May 11, 2012, 07:20:11 PM »
"how does one judge find the beer bone dry and the other cloyingly sweet?"

Some people are more sensitive to sugar than others - search on "supertasters" vs. "non-tasters".

Also, sometimes poor attenuation can be partially masked by astringency, hop bitter or high carbonation.

Isn't there an assigned head judge that reviews the comments for consistency?

Generally, no. At best, you'll have someone reviewing scoresheets during the competition for bad judging practice - like insulting or minimal feedback.

Offline koelschbrewer

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #204 on: May 12, 2012, 01:36:49 PM »
Got my scoresheets from Atlanta back today. 42.5/38/31 points for the three beers I entered. Feedback good and valuable for 5/6 judges. I am impressed.

Offline weithman5

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Re: 1st round NHC results
« Reply #205 on: May 12, 2012, 02:29:20 PM »
i got my score sheets yesterday from chicago.  although i did not do well, i thought the feedback, though brief, was quite good. my hats off to both judges, and hopefully next time i will provide a better substrate for their palates.

Don AHA member