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Methods to reduce astringency of roasted barley

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narcout:
In an attempt to reduce the astringency of roasted barley, does anyone have any experience or advice regarding (a) adding it late in the mash, (b) subbing some debittered black malt or duhusked Carafa for some of the grist, or (c) cold steeping it overnight and then adding that water back to the boil?

Does one of these methods work better than the others?

I am already making the necessary water adjustments and keeping an eye on the mash ph but want to take a little of the edge of off an oatmeal stout recipe.

MDixon:
IF you are getting astringency from dark grains it is mostly likely due to your water chemistry. I'd suggest first trying to replicate a beer where you had high perceived astringency in the finished product, but try the method of adding the dark grains to the mash just before sparging.

Astringency is:

--- Quote ---mouthpuckering sensation that is comparable to chewing on grape skins or grape seeds
--- End quote ---

denny:

--- Quote from: MDixon on February 05, 2010, 01:58:40 PM ---IF you are getting astringency from dark grains it is mostly likely due to your water chemistry. I'd suggest first trying to replicate a beer where you had high perceived astringency in the finished product, but try the method of adding the dark grains to the mash just before sparging.

Astringency is:

--- Quote ---mouthpuckering sensation that is comparable to chewing on grape skins or grape seeds
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

+1 to Mr. D...that's the easiest way.  I've also had good luck with cold steeping, if you want to do more work (what, are you crazy???).   Here's some info on it...

From George Fix on Cold Steeping

Question to Dr. Fix:

On the Brews & Views discussion board a couple months ago, someone mentioned a talk you gave regarding cold steeping of malts like Munich. I would very much appreciate it if you would elaborate on this technique. How do you do it, what does it do for the brew, what malts are good candidates for this technique.

Dr. Fix:

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival! The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics. The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My version goes as follows.

    * (i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
    * (ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
    * (iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures, and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the procedure.

The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.

dean:
I've been reading the other thread about this and thought I might add this, it may not "necessarily" be the case but because dark malts do lower the mash pH quite effectively... don't mash as long.  Jmo... it may not be the case but it may be worth a try.  I'm also particularly interested in calcium ratios concerning this subject.  I like a good stout but I wonder if there may be some cut-off or ratio between the salts that come into play with it?

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