Author Topic: Rookie Needs A Lil Help  (Read 5650 times)

Offline bigchicken

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2012, 10:10:31 AM »
The recommendation is to not use wort for starters that's been saved without being pressure canned.  Supposedly there's a risk of botulism.  Based on that, I'd toss the wort.

It may be more work than it's worth, but couldn't the wort be boiled again to kill everything off, cooled and then have yeast pitched again? Just a thought to save some money. Maybe this wouldn't work?

From what I have learned, botulism spores can survive for up to five hours in boiling water.  Based on this I would dump it as it's not worth the potential risk.

Yikes! Good info. I'm changing sides and say to dump it too.

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Offline majorvices

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2012, 10:39:49 AM »
Oh, one little mention of botulism and y'all go running like little girls.  :P ;)
Keith Y.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2012, 10:47:23 AM »
Oh, one little mention of botulism and y'all go running like little girls.  :P ;)

You won't have to tell me twice. :o
Ron Price

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2012, 11:01:57 AM »
Oh, one little mention of botulism and y'all go running like little girls.  :P ;)

You won't have to tell me twice. :o

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Offline bigchicken

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2012, 11:29:33 AM »
Oh, one little mention of botulism and y'all go running like little girls.  :P ;)

For some reason the thought of a paralysis causing bacteria suddenly makes me think the possible money savings may not be worth it.   ;D
TJ Cook
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2012, 04:36:44 PM »
Oh, one little mention of botulism and y'all go running like little girls.  :P ;)
I have to agree, what a bunch of babies. ;D

If you are worried about it, boil it again.  The spores may survive, but that is not a problem.  Any spores that are in it right now will be killed during, or fail to grow after, fermentation (it really doesn't matter which).  Beer is non-pathogenic, the alcohol and acidity will protect you.  Botulinum spores are harmless when consumed, you only need to worry about the botulinum toxin.

As for this being low acid, maybe there were spores present and maybe they grew over the last few weeks and poisoned the whole batch - big deal.  Boil it again and it will denature the toxin, making the whole thing harmless.

You can eat those dented cans full of Clostridium botulinum, just make sure that you cook everything for a while first.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline bo

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2012, 04:38:36 PM »
Real men eat botulism.

Offline bluesman

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Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2012, 06:49:24 PM »
Perhaps boiling again would be a fix as Tom has suggested.  However at this juncture, I would make a new batch.   Call me what you will but I will be confident and satisfied with a fresh batch of wort as opposed to the latter.
Ron Price

Offline majorvices

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2012, 07:09:12 PM »
Two weeks - two freakin' weeks, no yeast. Dump that sh!t. There should be no argument. Something is already growing in there. Be it botulism or bacteria from mars. Doesn't matter, there's no fixing it. My .02.  ;)
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Offline bluesman

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Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2012, 07:13:55 PM »
Two weeks - two freakin' weeks, no yeast. Dump that sh!t. There should be no argument. Something is already growing in there. Be it botulism or bacteria from mars. Doesn't matter, there's no fixing it. My .02.  ;)

+1

It's just not worth the risk.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2012, 11:18:21 PM »
Two weeks - two freakin' weeks, no yeast. Dump that sh!t. There should be no argument. Something is already growing in there. Be it botulism or bacteria from mars. Doesn't matter, there's no fixing it. My .02.  ;)

+1

It's just not worth the risk.
What risk?  A new boil and a pack of yeast?  That's risky? :-\

Call me what you will
I call you wort waster. ;)

I'm not saying he shouldn't make another batch of beer - no need to toss the old one without even tasting it though.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline majorvices

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2012, 03:32:51 AM »
Even if it is nothing harmful and even if re boiling can re sanitize, the beer will not turn out nearly as good as it could have. For a guys first batch I am sure he wants it to turn out as good as possible. Well, he's already taken a step back and the steps to fix it aren't that much more difficult at the extract level than to remake the batch. Dump it and start over.

Or, you could take some guys advice over the Internet that you never met before and don't know from Adam that you won't get botulism or turn into a little green monster.  ;) seriously, I agree that reboiling probably eliminates any potentially harmful food born bacteria, but I don't think it is worth the time, energy or yeast to try and save the batch. Call me a waster, I'm usually wasted anyway.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 03:34:33 AM by majorvices »
Keith Y.
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Offline kgs

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2012, 05:38:50 AM »
I'm curious what the wort looks like. That could be useful information. But though I generally give a beer a chance to prove itself, I'm leaning toward: dump it, start over, lesson learned. Don't waste time bottling (or even kegging) bad beer. Figure out in advance how to get the new wort down to at least 70 f if not lower.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2012, 07:31:37 AM »
Even if it is nothing harmful and even if re boiling can re sanitize, the beer will not turn out nearly as good as it could have. For a guys first batch I am sure he wants it to turn out as good as possible.

IMO, concerns about botulism are overblown but determine your own risk tolerance.  Medical info on the web tends to say "you will die" in my experience.

Regardless, we all know that it's 99% likely this beer will taste nasty.  N-A-S-T-Y.  It's been sitting, souring, and doing who-knows-what for two weeks.  It certainly will not be what it was intended to be.

If you have the time and inclination, go ahead and boil it, ferment it, whatever, but don't expect to be excited by the results.

I would think that just giving it a good sniff right now would tell you if it's gone sour.  If you like sour, maybe that's OK.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Rookie Needs A Lil Help
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2012, 11:54:03 AM »
Regardless, we all know that it's 99% likely this beer will taste nasty.  N-A-S-T-Y.  It's been sitting, souring, and doing who-knows-what for two weeks.  It certainly will not be what it was intended to be.
We don't know that at all!  We have no idea if it is contaminated or if anything is growing, if it has any off flavors, or if it is just sitting there.

No, it probably won't be exactly as intended.  KGS, you say lesson learned - I say there are MORE lessons to be learned. :)

Of course, we're here yammering away and arguing over it, and the OP hasn't even responded to anything. ::)
Tom Schmidlin