Author Topic: Phosphoric Acid amounts?  (Read 2875 times)

Offline patrickswayze

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Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« on: May 24, 2012, 02:25:32 PM »
What are the high and low limits of using phosphoric acid in your mash without damaging the recipe? I can't find anything regarding limits. Right now i have a recipe that i may require anywhere from 4mL to 7mL. Any inputs would be helpful or even resources that may inlighten me. Thanks

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2012, 03:14:09 PM »
In John Palmers book, page 164, he states "Phosphoric acid is not recommended because it reacts chemically with calcium in the mash and changes the whole playing field, rather then simple adjusting the ph.

I use muriatic acid, real easy to come by.

Offline tygo

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2012, 03:23:04 PM »
Phosphoric acid is fine to use and the flavor threshold is pretty high.  Your 4-7 ml is perfectly acceptable and will have no impact on the flavor.  I routinely use at least that much.

Edit - To clarify I'm diluting it to a 10% solution before using.
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Offline anthony

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2012, 03:24:34 PM »
You would have to add a pretty obscene amount to damage the recipe... I am thinking an amount that would put your pH so out of whack that you would notice that before the effects of the extra phosphate.

The calcium thing has been debunked many, many times on this forum. Here is an example.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2012, 05:03:32 PM »
In John Palmers book, page 164, he states "Phosphoric acid is not recommended because it reacts chemically with calcium in the mash and changes the whole playing field, rather then simple adjusting the ph.

I use muriatic acid, real easy to come by.

Some guy named Gordon Stong likes it because it is flavor neutral.

Some guy named Martin Brungard has said that you have about 10000 times the phosphate compounds from the mash than you will add acid. The recuction in Ca is negligable.
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2012, 05:08:34 PM »
I must agree with Jeff et al.  We have used it and it does well at reducing pH, especially in sparge water, with no added effect on flavor.
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Offline patrickswayze

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2012, 05:21:20 PM »
Awesome thanks for the comments, definitely confident in using it now.

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 08:23:03 PM »
Some guy named Gordon Stong likes it because it is flavor neutral.

Some guy named Martin Brungard has said that you have about 10000 times the phosphate compounds from the mash than you will add acid. The recuction in Ca is negligable.

Guess I really stepped in it there. Only had one book open, but I spell better.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 08:43:15 PM by aa7yy »

Offline pyrite

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 08:34:18 PM »
I must agree with Jeff et al.  We have used it and it does well at reducing pH, especially in sparge water, with no added effect on flavor.

Conversely, what substance would have an effect on flavor that phosphoric acid does not?
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Offline bo

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2012, 08:36:20 PM »
In John Palmers book, page 164, he states "Phosphoric acid is not recommended because it reacts chemically with calcium in the mash and changes the whole playing field, rather then simple adjusting the ph.

I use muriatic acid, real easy to come by.

Some guy named Gordon Stong likes it because it is flavor neutral.

Some guy named Martin Brungard has said that you have about 10000 times the phosphate compounds from the mash than you will add acid. The recuction in Ca is negligable.

I'd go with Palmer on this one.

Offline anthony

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2012, 10:15:57 PM »
I must agree with Jeff et al.  We have used it and it does well at reducing pH, especially in sparge water, with no added effect on flavor.

Conversely, what substance would have an effect on flavor that phosphoric acid does not?

Lactic acid adds lactates... in large enough amounts it will contribute a sour flavor. Sulfuric acid adds sulfates.

Offline pyrite

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2012, 10:47:57 PM »
I must agree with Jeff et al.  We have used it and it does well at reducing pH, especially in sparge water, with no added effect on flavor.

Conversely, what substance would have an effect on flavor that phosphoric acid does not?

Lactic acid adds lactates... in large enough amounts it will contribute a sour flavor. Sulfuric acid adds sulfates.

Thank you.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2012, 06:46:52 AM »
In John Palmers book, page 164, he states "Phosphoric acid is not recommended because it reacts chemically with calcium in the mash and changes the whole playing field, rather then simple adjusting the ph.

I use muriatic acid, real easy to come by.

Some guy named Gordon Stong likes it because it is flavor neutral.

Some guy named Martin Brungard has said that you have about 10000 times the phosphate compounds from the mash than you will add acid. The recuction in Ca is negligable.

I'd go with Palmer on this one.

FWIW, Sierra Nevada uses it to bring the pH of all their water down to 5.5.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2012, 06:49:32 AM »
Some guy named Gordon Stong likes it because it is flavor neutral.

Some guy named Martin Brungard has said that you have about 10000 times the phosphate compounds from the mash than you will add acid. The recuction in Ca is negligable.

Guess I really stepped in it there. Only had one book open, but I spell better.

Yes, my spelling is poor, and so are my typing skills.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Phosphoric Acid amounts?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2012, 06:52:05 AM »
In John Palmers book, page 164, he states "Phosphoric acid is not recommended because it reacts chemically with calcium in the mash and changes the whole playing field, rather then simple adjusting the ph.

I use muriatic acid, real easy to come by.

Some guy named Gordon Stong likes it because it is flavor neutral.

Some guy named Martin Brungard has said that you have about 10000 times the phosphate compounds from the mash than you will add acid. The recuction in Ca is negligable.

I'd go with Palmer on this one.

FWIW, Sierra Nevada uses it to bring the pH of all their water down to 5.5.

This is true. John Palmer is touring breweries for the "Water" book. I think he may have a new take on the use of phosphoric acid in brewing.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!