Author Topic: Shorter boil time  (Read 5815 times)

Offline gmac

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Shorter boil time
« on: June 02, 2012, 09:24:51 PM »
I'm gonna be trying a lower alcohol APA and adding all the hops at 30/10/0 instead of at 60.  Trying for more hop flavour while keeping bitterness in balance.  So, my question is  - Do I need to boil for 60 mins?  I'm going light Munich with a bit of crystal only. 
Any downside to doing only a 30 min boil?  If I don't need to boil as long, I may try it as a no-sparge and mash at 1.5L/lb and then add the remainder as boiling water before I sparge to get me closer to an actual mash out.
Thoughts?

Offline micsager

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2012, 09:29:38 PM »
I'm gonna be trying a lower alcohol APA and adding all the hops at 30/10/0 instead of at 60.  Trying for more hop flavour while keeping bitterness in balance.  So, my question is  - Do I need to boil for 60 mins?  I'm going light Munich with a bit of crystal only. 
Any downside to doing only a 30 min boil?  If I don't need to boil as long, I may try it as a no-sparge and mash at 1.5L/lb and then add the remainder as boiling water before I sparge to get me closer to an actual mash out.
Thoughts?

While I have no real clue, I'd say go for it.  And let us know how it turns out.  It WILL be beer. 


Offline andrew000141

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Shorter boil time
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2012, 09:30:09 PM »
The only thing you have to account for with a shorter boil is lower hop utilization. There is probably a formula that would easily scale it for you however I don't know it >.<
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Offline malzig

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2012, 04:24:32 AM »
The only real concern would be DMS, but I think the choice of Light Munich should prevent that.  Most darker kilned base malts seem to dramatically reduce this problem.

One trick you can try is to monitor the aroma of the boil.  You'll smell the DMS blowing off early in the boil then disappear as the boil progresses.

If you really want to boost the hop flavor, though, move all the hops to the last 15 minutes.  Or even the last 5 minutes!  A hot whirlpool rest of 20-30 minutes can make for good hop flavor and would bring the utilization back up near the 20-30 minute level.

Offline tom

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2012, 07:25:11 AM »
No worries about DMS unless using pale pilsner malts.
Brew on

Offline kgs

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2012, 07:51:54 AM »
The only thing you have to account for with a shorter boil is lower hop utilization. There is probably a formula that would easily scale it for you however I don't know it >.<

If the first hops are added at 30, would that apply?

Personally I'd stick with a 60-minute boil though I'm having a hard time justifying that recommendation and you should listen to more experienced brewers on that point. But on the hops schedule I know from experience you can go with 15/5/1 successfully. Fred Bonjour has a recipe for a late-hopped Amarillo APA that is delicious, and clocks in at 4.6%:

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/AmarilloPaleAleBeerDuJour

You could play around with other hops, though it's a great showcase for Amarillo.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2012, 08:07:05 AM »
The 60 minute boil will insure the DMS is driven off and that you get good break formation.

Fred has a 60 minute boil for his beer with the first addition at 15 minutes.

I have a Cream Ale that is boiled for 60 minutes, and the first addition goes in at flameout, 45 minute whirlpool.
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Offline gmac

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2012, 08:36:27 AM »
My 30 minute can be scaled back to a smaller 60 min if that's better.  Just looking to save 1/2 an hour on a brew.  I was going to use Citra at 30 but I think I'll just go back to 1/2 an ounce of Magnum or something like that instead.  My citra supplies are low and I want them for flavour as much as possible so I'll go with something different.

Can someone with working beer software (don't drop your iPad with all your brewing info on it...) please run this recipe for me?  I'm curious how the GU:BU ratio looks.

6 lbs Weyerman Munich 1
0.5 lbs Crystal 45
1/2 oz Magnum (13%) at 60
1/2 oz Citra (?) at 10
1/2 oz Amarillo (8%) at 10
1/2 oz Citra at flameout
1/2 oz Amarillo at flameout
WLP007

Thanks.

Offline kgs

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2012, 09:35:54 AM »
You mean like this? I think there are too many mash steps but haven't set up any custom mashes in Beersmith [edited to add corrected hop schedule]


BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: GMAC's late-hopped brew
Brewer: GMAC
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.52 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal   
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.035 SG
Estimated Color: 8.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 41.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
6 lbs                 Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM)           Grain         1        92.3 %       
8.0 oz                Cara 45 (Dingemans) (47.0 SRM)           Grain         2        7.7 %         
0.50 oz               Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           3        27.4 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min   Hop           4        6.0 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min          Hop           5        8.5 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min    Hop           6        0.0 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min           Hop           7        0.0 IBUs     
1.0 pkg               Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35 Yeast         8        -             


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Mash In           Add 8.13 qt of water at 163.7 F         152.0 F       60 min       

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (1.01gal, 2.26gal, 2.26gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 10:11:24 AM by kgs »
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Offline gmac

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2012, 09:42:47 AM »
Thanks KGS.  Appreciate the help. 
It's a little long on most of the hops (most were entered as 60 mins, there's only a 1/2 oz of Magnum at 60).
At 1.038, I'd like the IBU's to end somewhere around 30 to 35 IBU (slightly less than 1).


Offline euge

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2012, 10:11:11 AM »
I do short boils like that all the time. Don't worry. Boil until you see hot break- usually 10-15 minutes then add your thirty minute addition.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline kgs

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2012, 10:12:47 AM »
Thanks KGS.  Appreciate the help. 
It's a little long on most of the hops (most were entered as 60 mins, there's only a 1/2 oz of Magnum at 60).
At 1.038, I'd like the IBU's to end somewhere around 30 to 35 IBU (slightly less than 1).

Doh! Fixed (see above). I also question the post-boil volume, but it's a start.
K.G. Schneider
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Offline gmac

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2012, 10:35:11 AM »
Thanks KGS.  Appreciate the help. 
It's a little long on most of the hops (most were entered as 60 mins, there's only a 1/2 oz of Magnum at 60).
At 1.038, I'd like the IBU's to end somewhere around 30 to 35 IBU (slightly less than 1).

Doh! Fixed (see above). I also question the post-boil volume, but it's a start.

Great thanks a lot.  I think I'll just tone the Magnum down a tiny bit (12-13g total) and I should be good. 
The post boil will actually be good because I do 23L ferments (5 imperial gal). 

I use iBrewmaster and they sent an update.  I dropped my ipad and cracked the screen.  It works in 98% of the area of the screen but the one tiny spot that doesn't register my finger is exactly the area that DEMANDS that I run the update to get it to work.  So I have no records of previous brews (at least in the last 8 months) and no brewing software right now.  I miss being able to run "theoretical" brews so thanks again.  I guess I'm gonna have to get this thing re-glassed :(

Offline malzig

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Re: Shorter boil time
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2012, 11:53:11 AM »
My 30 minute can be scaled back to a smaller 60 min if that's better.
60 minutes is not better for flavor.  More after 20 minutes would be better.

Offline kgs

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Shorter boil time
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2012, 12:30:10 PM »
i ran this in ibrewmaster for comparison. I should use this app more often. the mash step water quantities are clearly wrong, but the rest jives with what you're trying to do.

gmac attack

Style: Unassigned   OG: 1.031   
Type:   FG: 1.008   
Rating: 4.0   ABV: 3.01 %   
Calories: 101   IBU's: 30.95   
Efficiency: 70 %   Boil Size: 5.83 Gal   
Color:    8.8 SRM     Batch Size: 5.00 Gal   
Boil Time: 60 minutes   
 
Fermentation Steps
Name   Days / Temp
Primary   14 days @ 68.0°F
 
Grains & Adjuncts
Amount   Percentage      Name   Time   Gravity
6.00 lbs    92.31 %      Weyermann Munich I   60 mins   1.038
0.50 lbs    7.69 %      Dingemans Cara 45   60 mins   1.032
 
Hops
Amount   IBU's      Name   Time   AA %
0.25 ozs    14.57      Magnum   60 mins   14.00
0.50 ozs    9.96      Citra   10 mins   13.20
0.50 ozs    6.42      Amarillo Gold   10 mins    8.50
0.50 ozs    0.00      Amarillo Gold   0 mins    8.50
0.50 ozs    0.00      Citra   0 mins   13.20
 
Yeasts
Amount   Name   Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg   Dry English Ale   White Labs 0007
 
Additions
(none)
 
Mash Profile
Light Body Infusion In   75 min @ 150.0°F
 Add 8.12 qt ( 1.25 qt/lb ) water @ 162.0°F
Light Body Infusion Out   10 min @ 168.0°F
 Add 4.88 qt ( 0.75 qt/lb ) water @ 200.0°F
 
Carbonation
(none)
 
Notes
 
www.iBrewMaster.com   Version: 1.500



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