Author Topic: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe  (Read 15954 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2012, 10:53:45 AM »
I think the Union Jack recipe that Matt Bryndilson gave out on the BN had Simcoe as the bittering hop. It has low cohumulone, and works well for bittering. Some like its aromatics so much they say that is a waste.

Vinnie Cilurzo says he uses the Simcoe from Carpenter Farms for bittering, and then for dryhoping. Maybe that one has more cat pee if used later in the boil?
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Offline hoser

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2012, 10:55:47 AM »
I'm really enjoying an IPA I just brewed using these three hops in combination for flavor/aroma. I used 1/2 oz of Chinook at 60 minutes for my bittering charge, then I used 1/2 oz each of Simcoe, Amarillo and Citra at 15, 10, 5, and flameout. I did a 30-minute hot steep/whirlpool. Then I dry-hopped with 3/4 oz of each. The main notes are the tropical fruit from the Citra highlighted by some floral notes from the Amarillo. The Simcoe gives a nice resiny bite and adds some real nice complexity.

My recommendation is to get rid of your 30 and 40 minute additions (and maybe even the 20-minute one). Add those at flameout and do a long whirlpool before chilling. At 30 and 40 minutes you aren't getting much flavor or aroma contribution from those hops, since most of the hop oils will boil off. You really want to add them as late as possible. I'd also dry hop with at least an ounce of each of the hops.

The more hoppy beers I brew, the more simple I keep my hop schedule. For my next hop bomb, my hop schedule is probably going to be something like this:

60 min - 0.5 oz of Columbus or Chinook
10 min - massive addition of a blend of all my flavor/aroma hops
Flameout - another massive addition of the hop blend
Dry hop - split the remaining hops in 3 batches and add them each 3 days apart. Bottle 3 days after the last addition.

This is pretty much my standard hopping regimine as well.

Offline hoser

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2012, 11:03:46 AM »
I think the Union Jack recipe that Matt Bryndilson gave out on the BN had Simcoe as the bittering hop. It has low cohumulone, and works well for bittering. Some like its aromatics so much they say that is a waste.

Vinnie Cilurzo says he uses the Simcoe from Carpenter Farms for bittering, and then for dryhoping. Maybe that one has more cat pee if used later in the boil?

The website lists it as a blend of warrior and simcoe for Union Jack.  JZ and Tasty just used 25 grams of warrior as the bittering hop in the clone recipe.  Most large scale commercial breweries are using hop extract as their bittering charge anymore to cut down on the hop mass and kettle loss these days anyways.  Most of these extracts are just a blend of high AA%, low-cohumulone hops like CTZ, summit, apollo, and warrior (to name a few).  So that tells you that the hop used for bittering is really inconsecequential in terms of flavor contribution.  All the brewers are looking for are IBUs.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 11:11:58 AM by hoser »

Offline FirstStateBrewer

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2012, 11:08:39 AM »
I'm really enjoying an IPA I just brewed using these three hops in combination for flavor/aroma. I used 1/2 oz of Chinook at 60 minutes for my bittering charge, then I used 1/2 oz each of Simcoe, Amarillo and Citra at 15, 10, 5, and flameout. I did a 30-minute hot steep/whirlpool. Then I dry-hopped with 3/4 oz of each. The main notes are the tropical fruit from the Citra highlighted by some floral notes from the Amarillo. The Simcoe gives a nice resiny bite and adds some real nice complexity.

My recommendation is to get rid of your 30 and 40 minute additions (and maybe even the 20-minute one). Add those at flameout and do a long whirlpool before chilling. At 30 and 40 minutes you aren't getting much flavor or aroma contribution from those hops, since most of the hop oils will boil off. You really want to add them as late as possible. I'd also dry hop with at least an ounce of each of the hops.

The more hoppy beers I brew, the more simple I keep my hop schedule. For my next hop bomb, my hop schedule is probably going to be something like this:

60 min - 0.5 oz of Columbus or Chinook
10 min - massive addition of a blend of all my flavor/aroma hops
Flameout - another massive addition of the hop blend
Dry hop - split the remaining hops in 3 batches and add them each 3 days apart. Bottle 3 days after the last addition.

This is pretty much my standard hopping regimine as well.
I was just at my LHBS to get the additional specialty grains.  Not going back before I brew.  I'll see if a friend of mine has some bittering hops like Columbus or Chinook I can use.  I don't think I have anything like that at home.  Otherwise, I'll use the Simcoe for bittering.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2012, 06:32:48 PM »
I was just at my LHBS to get the additional specialty grains.  Not going back before I brew.  I'll see if a friend of mine has some bittering hops like Columbus or Chinook I can use.  I don't think I have anything like that at home.  Otherwise, I'll use the Simcoe for bittering.

Columbus and Chinook are my personal preference for bittering, but there are plenty of other options too. Nugget, Magnum, Galena will all do a fine job as well.

I can't confirm through my own brewing experience, but the only time I've ever tasted "cat pee" from Simcoe was in an all-Simcoe beer. A common opinion is that using Simcoe as a 60-minute bittering addition is what leads to the whole cat pee thing (I've heard the same about Citra as well). Others have reported using Simcoe at 60 minutes with no pee, so YMMV.

I just know that I haven't had the stones to try Simcoe as a bittering addition, since every beer I've used it in has had at least 20 bucks worth of hops in it and I haven't wanted to risk it. Whatever you end up doing, please keep us posted on your results.
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Offline DrewG

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2012, 11:16:31 AM »
Quote
I think I must be one of the few homebrewers who doesn't really care for Citra.  Just too weirdly fruity for my tastes.  I know of least a couple commercial brewers who fell the same way.

I tried it in a single hop APA and didn't care for it, but I like in mixed with piney C hops or amarillo
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Offline brewsumore

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2012, 10:52:28 PM »
I used a .5 oz 60 min bittering charge of simcoe along with same of columbus, for a NW IPA with centennial and cascade flavor and aroma and dryhops (+ more columbus for dryhops), and got no cattiness from the simcoe, although it was a pretty small addition.

Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2012, 08:33:28 AM »
Quote
I think I must be one of the few homebrewers who doesn't really care for Citra.  Just too weirdly fruity for my tastes.  I know of least a couple commercial brewers who fell the same way.

I tried it in a single hop APA and didn't care for it, but I like in mixed with piney C hops or amarillo

I think Citra overwhelms other hops flavor and (esp) aroma contributions, much like Nelson. I throttle the amount of Citra back when using it in combination with other hops.

LOVE it for dryhopping and FWH, when in moderation.
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Offline madscientist

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Re: Citra, Amarillo & Simcoe
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2012, 01:26:54 PM »
I had a lot of success with Columbus as bittering and late additions of Citra.  Would probably compliment the other citrusy hops really well too.
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