Author Topic: That German lager flavor  (Read 90239 times)

Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2012, 12:01:33 AM »
I love the recipe Ron. You know guys if you follow the golden rules of brewing you can take a malt and some hops you can make a wonderful beer. I think Ron's recipe pees on a horchkurz sort of mashing. Not saying his beer is the one all of be all. I want to say if your process is tight you can brew any style. but your process has to be tight.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #76 on: June 27, 2012, 04:28:23 AM »
looks good ron. gotta love a recipe with 3 ingredients! well 5 counting the water and the yeast.

why the rice hulls?

Simpler is often better...but really it comes down to having a sound yet repeatable process all in an effort to produce the best possible beer. 

I use rice hulls because they help facilitate the process.  They helps with the circulation/lautering on my system. (better flow)
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Offline bluesman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #77 on: June 27, 2012, 04:28:50 AM »
I love the recipe Ron. You know guys if you follow the golden rules of brewing you can take a malt and some hops you can make a wonderful beer. I think Ron's recipe pees on a horchkurz sort of mashing. Not saying his beer is the one all of be all. I want to say if your process is tight you can brew any style. but your process has to be tight.

Thanks!
Ron Price

Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #78 on: June 27, 2012, 04:43:53 AM »
I think it's a great example of a SMaSH beer.  I've been concentrating on these myself lately.  I'm sure the 833 lends a unique malty "German" character as well.  However, there are reasons why German breweries as a whole perform Hochkurz mashes.  I wouldn't pee on it entirely.  However I do agree you can make great beer with a single infusion and sound process.

Ron, it would be really interesting to hear how this tastes if you made it with a Hochkurz and compared them side by side.  Sounds like a great experiment.  I may have to try it myself!

Dave
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 04:53:32 AM by davidgzach »
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Offline mmitchem

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #79 on: June 27, 2012, 05:08:02 AM »
That does look good Ron. I love simple repeatable recipes myself. I just did a SMaSH with a Munich Dunkel using 100% Munich and a triple decoction. Malty malty malty.

I am also interested to see what a Hochkurz mashing schedule would do to this beer. Hello, my weekend brew! Haha. Thanks for posting Ron!
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #80 on: June 27, 2012, 05:24:37 AM »
Thanks Ron.  This beer is the best domestic example (including commercial examples) of a German pilsner I have ever had.  The recipe and process really do stand up.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2012, 07:41:35 AM »
How often is a diacetyl rest necessary? Also, if I were to take the fermenter out of the chest freezer for the diacetyl rest, does it matter much if room temperature is 65 or 75?

I suppose that kind of sounds like a stupid question...
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 07:58:44 AM by beersk »
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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2012, 08:24:18 AM »
How often is a diacetyl rest necessary?

I'd guess that maybe only about 10% of my lagers need a d rest.
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2012, 09:30:20 AM »
How often is a diacetyl rest necessary? Also, if I were to take the fermenter out of the chest freezer for the diacetyl rest, does it matter much if room temperature is 65 or 75?

I suppose that kind of sounds like a stupid question...

Not a stupid question.  Some yeasts produce very little diacetyl and I have found the lower the fermentation temperature, the less produced.  Be mindful that an appropriate amount of healthy yeast is very important as well.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2012, 09:35:03 AM »
Some yeasts are more prone to producing diacetyl than others. For example, Czech Pils yeast strains typically produce a lot of diacetyl, whereas German Lager yeasts are less likely to produce as much. The good news is that the residual yeast in suspension will consume diacetyl and other fermentation by-products after fermentation, so diacetyl will be mitigated during lagering.

Taste the beer after fermentation and decide if a D-rest is necessary. I like to do one as a standard course of action, as I find that there is always some level of diacetyl that I don't want in the beer.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2012, 09:53:50 AM »
And how much does the temperature of the diacetyl rest matter? Would it be bad if the room was 75F instead of 65F? Or would that even matter since the initial stages fermentation is complete?
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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2012, 09:56:10 AM »
And how much does the temperature of the diacetyl rest matter? Would it be bad if the room was 75F instead of 65F? Or would that even matter since the initial stages fermentation is complete?

The purpose of increasing the temp is to make the yeast more active to consume the diacetyl, so the exact temp doesn't matter much.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2012, 10:20:55 AM »
And how much does the temperature of the diacetyl rest matter? Would it be bad if the room was 75F instead of 65F? Or would that even matter since the initial stages fermentation is complete?

The purpose of increasing the temp is to make the yeast more active to consume the diacetyl, so the exact temp doesn't matter much.
That's good to know, thanks.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2012, 10:25:32 AM »
How often is a diacetyl rest necessary? Also, if I were to take the fermenter out of the chest freezer for the diacetyl rest, does it matter much if room temperature is 65 or 75?

I suppose that kind of sounds like a stupid question...

Definitely not a stupid question.  As stated, the best thing to do is taste the beer and see for yourself.  You don't need to be a Master BJCP Judge to identify it.  Think "I Can't Believe it's Not Butter".  While some strains seem to produce more than others, I have found it is almost completely mitigated by pitching the proper amount of yeast, at temps below the fermentation temp, and letting it rise to somewhere a few degrees below the middle ground for the strain.  I typically shoot for 48F-50F, starting at 45F.

As for the temp of the diacetyl rest, I have done mine at 68F, mainly because that is the temp of my basement which makes life easy.  Would 75F hurt your beer?  I think not so long as it is fermented out at around 80% or so.  Like Denny says, the purpose is to make the yeast more active to consume the diacetyl.  Now if you got into the 80's, I would suspect the yeast would start to produce some off-flavors but maybe someone else can provide a more educated response on that......

Dave
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #89 on: June 27, 2012, 10:37:44 AM »
A good way to taste the sample is to warm it for a few seconds in the microwave to room temp. Some of us have a lo sensitivity to diacetyl. I know one guy who is pretty much blind to it.

The d-rest cleans up faster than lagering does, so you can save time if the next batch needs that fermenter. It blows off sulfur compounds too.
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