Author Topic: That German lager flavor  (Read 63367 times)

Offline rabeb25

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2012, 09:19:34 AM »
Chit Malt is essential, it lends that honey like graininess with an amazing head (and NO flaked barley is not the same).

Don't forget proper attenuation, all German beer is dry, with a malty backbone.. Hockurtz can only achieve this for me.

pH is a HUGE factor, not only mash pH but kettle, fermenter, and final. The Germans like low mash pH's 5.2-3, so that way when it hits the kettle you start low and want to see about 4-9-5.0 into the fermenter(drop to 4.9 with phos if not). They also like low final pH of the beer.

I won't touch too much on water because it has already been mentioned, but I prefer to use RO with enough cacl to get me to ~50 calcium. Minimal approach for me.

Here is a recipe for a Helles that has won me many awards:

Recipe: Edel Hell   TYPE: All Grain
Style: Munich Helles
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 3.7 SRM      SRM RANGE: 3.0-5.0 SRM
IBU: 20.2 IBUs Rager   IBU RANGE: 16.0-22.0 IBUs
OG: 1.048 SG      OG RANGE: 1.045-1.051 SG
FG: 1.011 SG      FG RANGE: 1.008-1.012 SG
BU:GU: 0.423      Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz   Est ABV: 4.7 %      
EE%: 62.00 %   Batch: 5.50 gal      Boil: 8.34 gal   BT: 60 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------


Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 6.2 oz   Total Hops: 1.25 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.30 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
8 lbs 4.1 oz          Pilsner (Best Malz) (1.7 SRM)            Grain         1        72.5 %       
1 lbs 7.8 oz          Vienna Malt (Best Malz) (3.0 SRM)        Grain         2        13.1 %       
1 lbs 3.3 oz          Chit Malt (Best Malz) (2.0 SRM Grain         3        10.6 %       
5.1 oz                 Acid Malt (Best Malz) (3.0 SRM)                      Grain         4        3.1 %         


Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Dough In          Add 9.67 gal of water at 125.9 F        122.0 F       0 min         
Maltose Rest      Heat to 145.0 F over 15 min             145.0 F       30 min       
Dextrinization Re Add -0.00 gal of water and heat to 162. 162.0 F       40 min       
Mash Out          Heat to 170.0 F over 4 min              170.0 F       15 min       



---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.034 SG   Est OG: 1.048 SG
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
0.25 oz               Magnum [13.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           5        13.9 IBUs     
0.50 oz               Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [3.20 %] - Boil  Hop           6        5.0 IBUs     
1.10 Items            Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)        Fining        7        -             
1.10 tsp              Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins)          Other         8        -             
0.50 oz               Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [3.20 %] - Boil  Hop           9        1.3 IBUs     


Sprinkle in your yeast of choice.. I prefer 830. Oh yea I only use Best Malz, so YMMV. I brewed my last one with their new Heidelberg Malt, its lagering as we speak and won't come out until September but first tastes are GREAT.



« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 10:50:16 AM by rabeb25 »
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2012, 09:28:47 AM »
Bryan,

Thanks for the recipe!  Already copied and converting in to BeerTools.  May have to make it this weekend...... ;)

Much of what I've been pontificating in this thread I learned from you on the Midwest Forum......

Dave
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Offline yugamrap

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2012, 09:33:00 AM »
I brew lagers year-round - mainly Helles, Märzen and Maibock.  For me, aside from using an appropriate recipe, getting closer to the characteristic "German" profile has come about through mash pH, decoction, and fermentation control.  I feel that mash pH and decoction together yield a well-converted wort that will ferment to appropriate dryness.  Controlling fermentation by pitching an appropriate amount of healthy, active yeast and managing fermentation temperature is critical to have even a chance at making a decent lager.
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Offline rabeb25

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2012, 10:50:35 AM »
Bryan,

Thanks for the recipe!  Already copied and converting in to BeerTools.  May have to make it this weekend...... ;)

Much of what I've been pontificating in this thread I learned from you on the Midwest Forum......

Dave

Thanks!
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Offline rabeb25

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2012, 10:52:37 AM »
Oh, I also forgot the lagering phase... I follow the German Rule of 1 week lagering per 1 degree plato. Proper lagering time and temp seem to add that little extra something.
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Offline redbeerman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2012, 10:55:33 AM »
Lagering on the primary yeast gives good results too.  This is something that I just started doing.  I made a  Vienna lager with WLP830 some time ago, lagered it for about six weeks on the primary yeast and it was crystal clear going into the keg.  The flavor is super clean as well.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2012, 10:59:00 AM »
Lagering on the primary yeast gives good results too.  This is something that I just started doing.  I made a  Vienna lager with WLP830 some time ago, lagered it for about six weeks on the primary yeast and it was crystal clear going into the keg.  The flavor is super clean as well.

I've been meaning to try that and have not gotten around to it.  I transfer to keg and lager.  I don't worry too much about getting some yeast in there, but it's not the same as leaving it on the cake.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2012, 12:48:32 PM »
What kind of final gravities are we talking about here? 1.010-1.012 for dryness?
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Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2012, 01:56:16 PM »
For German Pilsner, I usually shoot for 1.008-1.010 -- pretty much bone dry.  For Helles, it's more like 1.010-1.012.  For Oktoberfest, 1.012-1.014.
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Offline redzim

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2012, 04:47:47 AM »
Chit Malt is essential, it lends that honey like graininess with an amazing head (and NO flaked barley is not the same).

Don't forget proper attenuation, all German beer is dry, with a malty backbone.. Hockurtz can only achieve this for me.

2 Q's:

1) where can I buy chit malt? I've been doing a Jever-style German Pils using about 88% Best Malz pils and 12% Flaked Barley, it's close but not dead on.  I've heard of Chit Malt from some other brewers but never seen it. Where do you get yours?

2) for this beer, and also for my Maibocks and O-fests, I've been doing a rest around 130-133F, then infuse up to my sach rest (anywhere from 149 to 155 depending on the beer), then hitting it with a thinnish mash-out decoction.   You think a Hochkurz double decoction will vastly improve on this?  I've done Hochkurz on my last 2 Bo Pils and loved them, but it does take an extra hour or so....

-red

Offline weithman5

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2012, 06:54:40 AM »
Lagering on the primary yeast gives good results too.  This is something that I just started doing.  I made a  Vienna lager with WLP830 some time ago, lagered it for about six weeks on the primary yeast and it was crystal clear going into the keg.  The flavor is super clean as well.
my very first bear was a vienna with 830, i left it on the yeast for 3 months.  (i did let the temp drop for the last two months in to the 30s.) it turned out great except for i didn't know about that chloramine thing and campden tablets....
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2012, 07:08:33 AM »
Chit Malt is essential, it lends that honey like graininess with an amazing head (and NO flaked barley is not the same).

Don't forget proper attenuation, all German beer is dry, with a malty backbone.. Hockurtz can only achieve this for me.

2) for this beer, and also for my Maibocks and O-fests, I've been doing a rest around 130-133F, then infuse up to my sach rest (anywhere from 149 to 155 depending on the beer), then hitting it with a thinnish mash-out decoction.   You think a Hochkurz double decoction will vastly improve on this?  I've done Hochkurz on my last 2 Bo Pils and loved them, but it does take an extra hour or so....

-red

Red,

I would skip the rest at 130 and do a double infusion Hochkurz at 146 and 158-162.  Try that first before going all out on the decoction..... 

Dave
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2012, 07:11:35 AM »
For German Pilsner, I usually shoot for 1.008-1.010 -- pretty much bone dry.  For Helles, it's more like 1.010-1.012.  For Oktoberfest, 1.012-1.014.

+1 and the BoPils at 1.013-1.015.....
Dave Zach

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2012, 08:44:17 AM »
For German Pilsner, I usually shoot for 1.008-1.010 -- pretty much bone dry.  For Helles, it's more like 1.010-1.012.  For Oktoberfest, 1.012-1.014.

+1 and the BoPils at 1.013-1.015.....

Exactly.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2012, 09:25:24 PM »
So, is any of this pretty much unachievable with Wyeast 1007? Or can one still get a pretty convincing German "lager" with 1007?  Probably not, right?
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