Author Topic: That German lager flavor  (Read 121683 times)

Online denny

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #105 on: June 27, 2012, 01:47:40 pm »
I remember reading that to have a healthy fermentation you need the yeast to reproduce at least a certain amount. Also remember a thread where Tom explained this.  I'll try to find it.

I don't think it's so much that they have to as that you want to pitch enough yeast to limit the amount they do.  Also, I've found that some yeast growth can enhance flavor, which is why I seldom pitch on an entire yeast slurry.  But pitching more yeast can be an acceptable substitute to aeration in some cases.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2012, 02:08:07 pm »
Ron, thanks for the lagering on the yeast cake comment - I do remember reading years back that the German use horizontal lagering tanks to let the yeast settle on more surface area, which makes more of the yeast in the lagering tank available to clear up the beer.

Budweiser uses the beechwood strips to give more area for the yeast to settle onto. Don't know the tank geometry.

I have thought of tranfering some yeast into the corny when racking, then lagering on the side. Afraid of leaks, but I might try that some day if I have room in the lagering freeze. I can fit 8 standing up. Need to see how many go in laying down.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2012, 02:37:12 pm »
Quote from: beersk
Without aerating the wort? I use a mix stir and I am wondering if I would be able to make up for the lack of aeration (as compared to pure O2) with pitching extra yeast.

Just looked back at this.  Got off track a bit.  If you aerate properly with a mix stir, you are fine.  Pitching more yeast will not fix poor aeration.
I have been under the impression that a mix stir will not aerate the wort enough for lagers.  2 or 3 minutes with a mix stir is all I usually do.

I've been using a mix-stir to aerate my lagers for almost two years without issue.  I have excellent lager fermentations that attenuate completely. 
Great to know, thanks! I don't have the highest rpm drill, but would that make much difference? Probably just the rate at which the O2 is dissolved, right?

I wonder about lagering on the yeast cake, would that yeast still be viable at the end of the lagering phase?
Jesse

Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2012, 02:46:21 pm »
Beersk,

If you are aerating at or close to your fermentation temp, you'll get more O2 in to solution.  Edit:  Than aerating at ale temps.....

Dave
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 02:48:27 pm by davidgzach »
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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2012, 03:10:35 pm »
Great to know, thanks! I don't have the highest rpm drill, but would that make much difference? Probably just the rate at which the O2 is dissolved, right?

Yep...you might have to run it a bit longer, but no big deal.
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Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #110 on: June 27, 2012, 03:13:36 pm »
Beersk,

If you are aerating at or close to your fermentation temp, you'll get more O2 in to solution.  Edit:  Than aerating at ale temps.....

Dave

I guess I should have stated that I always cool my lager wort down to around 46F prior to aerating and pitching.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #111 on: June 27, 2012, 04:02:18 pm »
Beersk,

If you are aerating at or close to your fermentation temp, you'll get more O2 in to solution.  Edit:  Than aerating at ale temps.....

Dave
Right, that's what I typically do or have done and will continue to do.......

Tons of great info in this thread guys, thanks a bunch.  Hopefully we can keep it going...too bad Kai isn't around anymore.  Where's he been? He's been updating his blog, I see...just not into the forums anymore I guess.
Jesse

Offline bluesman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #112 on: June 27, 2012, 07:06:12 pm »
Ron, thanks for the lagering on the yeast cake comment - I do remember reading years back that the German use horizontal lagering tanks to let the yeast settle on more surface area, which makes more of the yeast in the lagering tank available to clear up the beer.

Budweiser uses the beechwood strips to give more area for the yeast to settle onto. Don't know the tank geometry.

I have thought of tranfering some yeast into the corny when racking, then lagering on the side. Afraid of leaks, but I might try that some day if I have room in the lagering freeze. I can fit 8 standing up. Need to see how many go in laying down.

I've thought about krausening the beer while lagering but I would need a second fementation at high krausen in order to do that.  Maybe I'll experiment with that idea someday.
Ron Price

Offline bluesman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #113 on: June 27, 2012, 07:13:13 pm »

Right, that's what I typically do or have done and will continue to do.......

Tons of great info in this thread guys, thanks a bunch.  Hopefully we can keep it going...too bad Kai isn't around anymore.  Where's he been? He's been updating his blog, I see...just not into the forums anymore I guess.

Yes...I was visiting Kai's Blog and saw that he has two new articles in his blog this year. 

Beer color to mash pH (v2.0)

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beer_color_to_mash_pH_(v2.0)

Yeast Propagator

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Yeast_Propagator
Ron Price

Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #114 on: June 28, 2012, 06:33:54 am »
Do you guys spend the money for cold yeast shipping or risk it? I don't have a local homebrew shop, at least one that doesn't carry enough to carry any fresh yeast. I want to buy yeast right now but it's so damn hot out and it's kind of pricey to get it shipped.  I'm thinking of either waiting until the weather breaks or just pay for the cold shipping option.
Jesse

Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #115 on: June 28, 2012, 07:30:47 am »
I get an ice pack, but that's about it.  Haven't had any issues but you have to make a starter.....

Dave
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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2012, 07:50:50 am »
I get an ice pack, but that's about it.  Haven't had any issues but you have to make a starter.....

Dave
Of course.  I may do the same and get the ice pack.  It usually takes 2 days to get my stuff, which isn't too bad.
Jesse

Offline mmitchem

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2012, 07:53:52 am »
With summertime here, you can't be too safe with yeast, seeing how it sits on the delivery truck getting to the house. In the summer (with a 2 day ship), my icepacks are still a little cool to the touch, so it gives me a nice warm-n-fuzzy ;)
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #118 on: June 28, 2012, 08:09:18 am »
I get an ice pack, but that's about it.  Haven't had any issues but you have to make a starter.....

Dave
Of course.  I may do the same and get the ice pack.  It usually takes 2 days to get my stuff, which isn't too bad.

When I ordered from Midwest, it took 4 days.  No problem in the summer, but I did have one arrive frozen in the winter!   :o
Dave Zach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #119 on: June 28, 2012, 09:14:14 am »
too bad Kai isn't around anymore.  Where's he been? He's been updating his blog, I see...just not into the forums anymore I guess.

I exchanged emails with him a few weeks back.  He's been very busy with real life, but was going to Australia to speak.  He hopes to be at NHC in Philly.
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