Author Topic: That German lager flavor  (Read 63044 times)

Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #135 on: June 28, 2012, 01:54:08 PM »
So, anyone craving a malty German lager right now?  I know I've got a Hacker-Pschorr Oktoberfestbier in my fridge at home that is calling my name!  Now, to brew beer that good...one day.

all flipping day long.  i just brewed my ofest, but screwed up my mash and it will be more of a session beer.  but that is okay. may try to get another one mashed correctly ( i was not paying attention and the mash temp went way too high) within the next few weeks.  dusseldorf next then refest
Bummer.  I've been playing with Hochkurz decoction lately, so it's been fun.  I might've pulled too thin a mash last time, but the OG was higher than I expected, so it didn't mess with the efficiency.  But we'll find out what the flavor is like soon...
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Offline weithman5

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #136 on: June 28, 2012, 02:11:19 PM »
i am becoming more curious about the decoctions on these and what people think.  i have done a decoction once in the past but my questions are do people believe that the flavors are brought out by the individual rests (i e, just raising the temperature for a period of time/stepping through) or because of flavor changes in the mash that is pulled and boiled then re in fused.  would this be any different than pulling the first runnings and boiling down that volume for a bit before adding the remaining wort?
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Offline bluesman

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #137 on: June 28, 2012, 06:31:58 PM »
I swear I'm going to make it to PA for the Conference next year!  I think I've known some of you guys online for almost 7 years.   :o

Then it's about freakin' time!  ;)

Yeah...what the hay!  :)
Ron Price

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #138 on: June 28, 2012, 07:07:31 PM »
I swear I'm going to make it to PA for the Conference next year!  I think I've known some of you guys online for almost 7 years.   :o

Then it's about freakin' time!  ;)

Yeah...what the hay!  :)

I really thought I would be able to make it to Seattle.  But I just couldn't swing the $$ this time around.  I got a new job back in April and things will be different next year.   ;)  Already looking forward to knocking a few back with you guys!
Matt Schwandt | Minneapolis, MN
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #139 on: June 29, 2012, 06:38:01 AM »
Me too!   ;D
Dave Zach

Offline davidgzach

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #140 on: June 29, 2012, 07:23:39 AM »
On topic, I'm in DC now at my buddy's house for the golf tournament.  I built a "Go Tap" on wheels with my old tower and brought it down with a BoPils.  He was blown away.  I used 9# Floor Malted BoPils with .5# Vienna and .5# Munich with 4 Saaz additions and it is AWESOME.  I can say that the Hochkurz definitely made a difference.

Also had to post #500!  Not quite to Denny level, but still proud to be a homebrew geek!   8)

Dave
Dave Zach

Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #141 on: June 29, 2012, 10:47:26 AM »
i am becoming more curious about the decoctions on these and what people think.  i have done a decoction once in the past but my questions are do people believe that the flavors are brought out by the individual rests (i e, just raising the temperature for a period of time/stepping through) or because of flavor changes in the mash that is pulled and boiled then re in fused.  would this be any different than pulling the first runnings and boiling down that volume for a bit before adding the remaining wort?
The only thing I can realistically think of is that decoction allows for fuller conversion of less modified malts (or any malt for that matter).  I'm noticing quite a higher efficiency when I do a decoction, although the flavor contribution is highly debatable.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #142 on: June 29, 2012, 12:18:58 PM »
i am becoming more curious about the decoctions on these and what people think.  i have done a decoction once in the past but my questions are do people believe that the flavors are brought out by the individual rests (i e, just raising the temperature for a period of time/stepping through) or because of flavor changes in the mash that is pulled and boiled then re in fused.  would this be any different than pulling the first runnings and boiling down that volume for a bit before adding the remaining wort?
The only thing I can realistically think of is that decoction allows for fuller conversion of less modified malts (or any malt for that matter).  I'm noticing quite a higher efficiency when I do a decoction, although the flavor contribution is highly debatable.
Maillard reactions (non-enzymatic browning) take place during the boiling part of the decoction.  Boiling the grain breaks up the starches, too, for better extraction.  I am a firm believer in the increased malt complexity of decocted beers, but it is due to the boil part of the process more than the additional mash rest.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline weithman5

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #143 on: June 29, 2012, 01:13:17 PM »
that was my thought too, so then how much different would you expect it from just doing an extended boil with part of the runnings.  i suspect there would be still some difference do to possible flavors present in the grain that may not be in the wort but just guessing that is minimal
Don AHA member

Offline denny

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #144 on: June 29, 2012, 01:46:46 PM »
that was my thought too, so then how much different would you expect it from just doing an extended boil with part of the runnings.  i suspect there would be still some difference do to possible flavors present in the grain that may not be in the wort but just guessing that is minimal

Boiling down the runnings gives you a sweeter flavor than what you (supposedly) get from decoction.  Decoction (supposedly) increases the malt flavor, which is not necessarily sweet.
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Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #145 on: June 30, 2012, 07:17:59 PM »
Well, either way it does a nice job of increasing your efficiency, which is why I feel it is done more because of under modified malts than added malt flavor.  It is obviously a highly debatable topic, so it's not clear whether it adds anything or not.  But it's kinda fun to do also.
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Offline nateo

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #146 on: July 15, 2012, 07:33:37 AM »
I've been going through Eric Warner's book again recently, and I came across something I've not heard other homebrewers talk about. He says that off-flavors from fermentation byproducts can be the result of too much, too little, or the wrong amount of amino acids in the wort. It's not feasible to evaluate this on a home scale, or even a small commercial scale. Formol titration isn't capital intensive, but it only gives you total nitrogen, not composition, IIRC.

Still, it's made me wonder about people who use step mashes when maybe they shouldn't, and if that could cause low-level off-flavors in the finished beer. 
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #147 on: July 15, 2012, 01:19:41 PM »
Great discussion.

I have made my share of Czech lagers.

1) Continental ingredients.
2) Decoction or at least step mashing (Sorry Denny).
3) Lager yeast.
4) Proper Pitch, Ferment well.
5) At least 2 weeks on cold storage. Colder better.
6) Package and sell it. Ops. this is homebrew forum. Scrap this step.

Enjoy.
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On Tap At The TapRoom:
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Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
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Offline denny

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That German lager flavor
« Reply #148 on: July 15, 2012, 02:20:00 PM »
Great discussion.

I have made my share of Czech lagers.

1) Continental ingredients.
2) Decoction or at least step mashing (Sorry Denny).
3) Lager yeast.
4) Proper Pitch, Ferment well.
5) At least 2 weeks on cold storage. Colder better.
6) Package and sell it. Ops. this is homebrew forum. Scrap this step.

Enjoy.

No need to be sorry, Leos.  I've tried your beers and whatever you're doing is the right thing to do.


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Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline bluesman

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That German lager flavor
« Reply #149 on: July 15, 2012, 06:39:26 PM »
Great discussion.

I have made my share of Czech lagers.

1) Continental ingredients.
2) Decoction or at least step mashing (Sorry Denny).
3) Lager yeast.
4) Proper Pitch, Ferment well.
5) At least 2 weeks on cold storage. Colder better.
6) Package and sell it. Ops. this is homebrew forum. Scrap this step.

Enjoy.

No need to be sorry, Leos.  I've tried your beers and whatever you're doing is the right thing to do.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

+1

I've tried them too...and I also have to say that you definitely have a formula for success Leos.  Keep on brewing! :)
Ron Price