Author Topic: That German lager flavor  (Read 121901 times)

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #345 on: February 17, 2015, 10:25:38 am »

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008


Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.

Of course grist is a big factor, but in general that looks pretty similar to my results.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #346 on: February 17, 2015, 10:34:20 am »
That didn't/doesn't hold true for me.  My mashes pretty much follow this rule of thumb:

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008

This is for my system, pretty much regardless of malt type.
HERMS(two loops, a heat and a cool, accurate to 1/10th of a degree), mill gap of .025, 60 minutes, 5.3-5.5 pH.

I posted my results to Denny's wall, but I have no idea how to find it.

There is no way I will mash a Pils at 156 and add melanoidian, that is a sure recipe for disaster(for me).

i wouldn't disagree about lower mash temp for a pilsner where you are targeting low FG.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

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dfhar

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #347 on: February 17, 2015, 10:36:52 am »
That didn't/doesn't hold true for me.  My mashes pretty much follow this rule of thumb:

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008

This is for my system, pretty much regardless of malt type.
HERMS(two loops, a heat and a cool, accurate to 1/10th of a degree), mill gap of .025, 60 minutes, 5.3-5.5 pH.

I posted my results to Denny's wall, but I have no idea how to find it.

There is no way I will mash a Pils at 156 and add melanoidian, that is a sure recipe for disaster(for me).

Is this all assuming a 1.050 OG?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #348 on: February 17, 2015, 10:40:02 am »

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008


Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.

Of course grist is a big factor, but in general that looks pretty similar to my results.

besides grist, yeast and OG. and two FG beers of 1.016 may have completely different perceptions of residual sweetness or apparent dryness when tasted.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 10:44:34 am by Wort-H.O.G. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #349 on: February 17, 2015, 10:52:26 am »

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008


Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.

Of course grist is a big factor, but in general that looks pretty similar to my results.

besides grist, yeast and OG. and two FG beers of 1.016 may have completely different perceptions of residual sweetness or apparent dryness when tasted.

Absolutely, no arguments.  Just saying in general that, on my system, mash temp is one of the factors in attenuation.
Jon H.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #350 on: February 17, 2015, 10:58:23 am »

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008


Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.

Of course grist is a big factor, but in general that looks pretty similar to my results.

besides grist, yeast and OG. and two FG beers of 1.016 may have completely different perceptions of residual sweetness or apparent dryness when tasted.

Absolutely, no arguments.  Just saying in general that, on my system, mash temp is one of the factors in attenuation.

i know you get it. i just worry that people will look at a chart with xx temp =  xx FG and think its a one to one without the multitude of variables.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #351 on: February 17, 2015, 11:05:15 am »

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008


Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.

Of course grist is a big factor, but in general that looks pretty similar to my results.

besides grist, yeast and OG. and two FG beers of 1.016 may have completely different perceptions of residual sweetness or apparent dryness when tasted.

Absolutely, no arguments.  Just saying in general that, on my system, mash temp is one of the factors in attenuation.

i know you get it. i just worry that people will look at a chart with xx temp =  xx FG and think its a one to one without the multitude of variables.

Yep, it's not that simple.  With some people posting that they don't feel that mash temp makes a lot of difference (within reason), I still feel it does, at least in my system.
Jon H.

rabeb25

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #352 on: February 17, 2015, 12:08:56 pm »

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008


Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.

Of course grist is a big factor, but in general that looks pretty similar to my results.

besides grist, yeast and OG. and two FG beers of 1.016 may have completely different perceptions of residual sweetness or apparent dryness when tasted.

Completly agree as well.

rabeb25

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #353 on: February 17, 2015, 12:10:31 pm »
That didn't/doesn't hold true for me.  My mashes pretty much follow this rule of thumb:

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008

This is for my system, pretty much regardless of malt type.
HERMS(two loops, a heat and a cool, accurate to 1/10th of a degree), mill gap of .025, 60 minutes, 5.3-5.5 pH.

I posted my results to Denny's wall, but I have no idea how to find it.

There is no way I will mash a Pils at 156 and add melanoidian, that is a sure recipe for disaster(for me).

Is this all assuming a 1.050 OG?

I would say 1.042-1.055

Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #354 on: February 17, 2015, 06:49:34 pm »
I've found a Hochkurtz 2 step infusion mash is my favorite and easiest.  I rest at 145 for 30 minutes, infuse with a gallon or so of boiling water up to 158, rest for 40 minutes. Get good efficiency, good head retention, and great attenuation (1.010-1.012). I've been thinking about doing this mash schedule for all my beers, regardless of style.
Jesse

rabeb25

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #355 on: February 17, 2015, 07:00:48 pm »
I've found a Hochkurtz 2 step infusion mash is my favorite and easiest.  I rest at 145 for 30 minutes, infuse with a gallon or so of boiling water up to 158, rest for 40 minutes. Get good efficiency, good head retention, and great attenuation (1.010-1.012). I've been thinking about doing this mash schedule for all my beers, regardless of style.

Shhhh lets keep this our secret ;)

Offline brewday

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #356 on: February 17, 2015, 07:01:51 pm »
I've found a Hochkurtz 2 step infusion mash is my favorite and easiest.  I rest at 145 for 30 minutes, infuse with a gallon or so of boiling water up to 158, rest for 40 minutes. Get good efficiency, good head retention, and great attenuation (1.010-1.012). I've been thinking about doing this mash schedule for all my beers, regardless of style.

I do the same, only with full volume/no sparge.  Half of my water to mash i at 145, the other half to raise to 155-158, vorlauf, drain, boil.

I do this for all styles, but I'll alter the rest times depending on what I'm brewing.  Pales usually get 45/15, Porters get 15/45, others 30/30.
Jon Weaver

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #357 on: February 17, 2015, 07:04:45 pm »

I've found a Hochkurtz 2 step infusion mash is my favorite and easiest.  I rest at 145 for 30 minutes, infuse with a gallon or so of boiling water up to 158, rest for 40 minutes. Get good efficiency, good head retention, and great attenuation (1.010-1.012). I've been thinking about doing this mash schedule for all my beers, regardless of style.

I do the same, only with full volume/no sparge.  Half of my water to mash i at 145, the other half to raise to 155-158, vorlauf, drain, boil.

I do this for all styles, but I'll alter the rest times depending on what I'm brewing.  Pales usually get 45/15, Porters get 15/45, others 30/30.

Are you measuring and adjusting ph at each step?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline beersk

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #358 on: February 17, 2015, 07:13:07 pm »

I've found a Hochkurtz 2 step infusion mash is my favorite and easiest.  I rest at 145 for 30 minutes, infuse with a gallon or so of boiling water up to 158, rest for 40 minutes. Get good efficiency, good head retention, and great attenuation (1.010-1.012). I've been thinking about doing this mash schedule for all my beers, regardless of style.

I do the same, only with full volume/no sparge.  Half of my water to mash i at 145, the other half to raise to 155-158, vorlauf, drain, boil.

I do this for all styles, but I'll alter the rest times depending on what I'm brewing.  Pales usually get 45/15, Porters get 15/45, others 30/30.

Are you measuring and adjusting ph at each step?


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I don't. I measure out my total mash water, add salts/acids, then pull out (and set aside) my infusion water, which is usually 3-4qt.
Jesse

dfhar

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Re: That German lager flavor
« Reply #359 on: February 17, 2015, 07:21:21 pm »

I've found a Hochkurtz 2 step infusion mash is my favorite and easiest.  I rest at 145 for 30 minutes, infuse with a gallon or so of boiling water up to 158, rest for 40 minutes. Get good efficiency, good head retention, and great attenuation (1.010-1.012). I've been thinking about doing this mash schedule for all my beers, regardless of style.

I do the same, only with full volume/no sparge.  Half of my water to mash i at 145, the other half to raise to 155-158, vorlauf, drain, boil.

I do this for all styles, but I'll alter the rest times depending on what I'm brewing.  Pales usually get 45/15, Porters get 15/45, others 30/30.

Are you measuring and adjusting ph at each step?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I had the same gut reaction when I first read this. If the infusion water has low alkalinity and the mash pH at the beta rest is adjusted to be in the neighborhood of 5.4, I would expect the extra gallon of mash water to raise the pH to no higher than 5.5 or 5.6. This might even be beneficial for alpha amylase, as it has a pH optimum at 5.7.

As far as no-sparge, I'm not a huge fan because in my experience even with my low alkalinity water (< 40 ppm), I notice my mash pH can be up to 0.4 higher than if I mash at 2 quarts per pound. If you measure the mash pH at your alpha rest and it's 5.7 or less, you're probably okay (although I do believe that a pH of 5.4 results in a better flavor). If not, you can always just acidify your infusion water before you add it.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 07:25:23 pm by dfhar »