Author Topic: Why aren't NHC scores published?  (Read 3389 times)

Offline phunhog

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Why aren't NHC scores published?
« on: June 26, 2012, 12:14:25 PM »
quick question.....Why aren't NHC scores published?  Maybe it is the competitor in me but I would like to know what a beer scored not just that it got 1st place.

Offline brewmanator

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 12:43:32 PM »
Because the organizers don't want to have to deal with the 50 or 60 emails that would ask: Why did my 42 point beer lose to a 37 point beer.
- Mike

Offline denny

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Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 01:09:55 PM »
quick question.....Why aren't NHC scores published?  Maybe it is the competitor in me but I would like to know what a beer scored not just that it got 1st place.

Maybe because it's nobody's business but the brewer's.


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Offline jeffy

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 01:25:53 PM »
On a somewhat related note, why didn't they announce the names of the winning beers during the awards presentation?  Sometimes that's the most entertaining part.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline tom

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 03:11:42 PM »
+1, mine was named "The Old Ball & Chain" Old Ale
Originally brewed for a friend's wedding reception   ;)
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Offline mmitchem

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 03:18:10 PM »

Maybe because it's nobody's business but the brewer's.


+1 Score is only relevant to the brewer and how that brewer can improve their own recipes. Plain and simple.
Michael P Mitchem
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Offline phunhog

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 08:06:53 PM »

Maybe because it's nobody's business but the brewer's.


+1 Score is only relevant to the brewer and how that brewer can improve their own recipes. Plain and simple.
I understand but c'mon if you are winning Gold at the NHC you are already brewing outstanding beer!!  Like I said I can be very competitive and I view the NHC as the "Olympics" for homebrewing. The brewers who win are the best of the best. Heck the winning recipes are even published in Zymurgy.  It doesn't seem like asking too much to know what kind of score it took to medal. It gives the rest of us something to shoot for.

Offline dbeechum

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 09:19:06 PM »
Heck the winning recipes are even published in Zymurgy.

That's nothing... they publish mine! :)

And actually, I don't think publishing the scores does anything for anyone. Particularly, with all the mini-BOS scrambling of scores, there's just nothing good that can from it.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 09:52:28 PM »
It is something that is not that important. Really.

My medal winners had very high first round scores. 38 to 39 second round. 2nd round can be tough.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline phunhog

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 10:34:39 PM »
I'm sorry maybe I don't understand the competition rules ???.  Aren't Gold, Silver, Bronze awarded based on your score?  Or am I missing something....Can a Gold Medal go to a beer that got a 38 and a Silver to a beer that got a 40 based on some mysterious factor?
I am starting to enter some local contests and wonder the same thing. I have been fortunate to win some medals. Obviously I know my score but I wonder what the 1st place winner's score was. Was I close? Does it matter??? Well it is a competition...otherwise why not just submit beers for feedback and call it good and not worry about medals, best of show, etc. 

Offline dbeechum

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 11:05:07 PM »
Yes, medals are usually in larger competitions awarded completely independent of the scores. Here's what happened at the NHC Second Round (and at other big comps including the first round) - it's usually referred to as a miniBOS.

The category is split  between judging panels. For instance, I judged 16 Belgian and French Ales in Seattle. There were 3 judging teams of 3 judges a piece. Each team tackled individual entries. (It ended up being about 13 entries per team). Each team determined what the top 3 beers were from their portion of the category.

Those 9 entries were then re-poured (from a fresh bottle) for the 3 head judges of the flight teams. (aka 1 person from each squad). We know the entry number and the style, but not the score given by the previous judges.

We debated the merits of each entry and eventually winnowed it down to our top 3 beers for the flight and their medal order.

So why the score independence? Because as best as we try, different judges grade differently. A 38 from me would be the equivalent of a 42 from another judge. If you just go by score, then entries judged by my crew suffer.

Now in smaller competitions and/or smaller categories if a single team of judges can tackle all the entries together then yes, medals are usually based on score. (Although judges usually have the right to assign whatever order they see fit)

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Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 11:42:18 PM »
Very well said Drew. I wonder why they print your recipes at all! JK keep the saison recipes coming!

Denny are you channeling me? or has it been a long month? ;)
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Offline phunhog

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 07:06:45 AM »
Yes, medals are usually in larger competitions awarded completely independent of the scores. Here's what happened at the NHC Second Round (and at other big comps including the first round) - it's usually referred to as a miniBOS.

The category is split  between judging panels. For instance, I judged 16 Belgian and French Ales in Seattle. There were 3 judging teams of 3 judges a piece. Each team tackled individual entries. (It ended up being about 13 entries per team). Each team determined what the top 3 beers were from their portion of the category.

Those 9 entries were then re-poured (from a fresh bottle) for the 3 head judges of the flight teams. (aka 1 person from each squad). We know the entry number and the style, but not the score given by the previous judges.

We debated the merits of each entry and eventually winnowed it down to our top 3 beers for the flight and their medal order.

So why the score independence? Because as best as we try, different judges grade differently. A 38 from me would be the equivalent of a 42 from another judge. If you just go by score, then entries judged by my crew suffer.

Now in smaller competitions and/or smaller categories if a single team of judges can tackle all the entries together then yes, medals are usually based on score. (Although judges usually have the right to assign whatever order they see fit)

Thanks Drew!!  Now I understand.

Offline aa7yy

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 08:27:27 AM »
and I might add. I was steward for a minBOS that had six entries. I looked up the scores of each entry while the judges discussed the merits. The first beer thrown out was the highest score. The battle for first and second took place between beers scored  37.3 and 37.6 , the second and third highest scores, if I remember right. Had a few beers afterwards.

Offline mmitchem

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Re: Why aren't NHC scores published?
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 08:40:09 AM »
While it is nice to get a good score on a beer, receiving quality, constructive feedback is the real prize...
Michael P Mitchem
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