Author Topic: New Wort over an active yeast cake  (Read 5873 times)

Offline newrocset

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
New Wort over an active yeast cake
« on: July 12, 2012, 03:00:43 AM »
This weekend I'm planning on racking my current brew (Honey Basil Pale Ale) to a 2ndary or keg, and then dropping my newly brewed APA on top of the yeast cake existing in the primary...is this an OK thing to do, or am I asking for an infection?

I used this method on my most recent brew - I dropped a brown porter over the yeast cake created by my standard bitter, and got amazing results...I'm hoping to repeat these results with the pale ale, but wanted to get some feedback before brew day.
Have a Kolsch and a smile!

Offline mainebrewer

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Palermo, Maine
    • View Profile
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 04:45:48 AM »
I'm assuming that the "basil" in the name of your beer indicates that you have or are going to add that herb.
Anyway, assuming that you didn't add basil to the primary fermentation, there won't be any major negative effect.
You might be over pitching, but if the original beer isn't infected, reusing the yeast cake won't infect the next one.
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?" Will Rogers

Offline morticaixavier

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 7101
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 07:56:08 AM »
+1. but if you put basil in the boil or primary I don't think you will get away without basil flavour in the next beer. But I could be wrong.

Offline mabrungard

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1313
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 08:35:45 AM »
Hop flavor and bittering can be transferred via the yeast into the subsequent ferment.  Color and roastiness can also be transferred via the yeast.   I've pitched onto yeast cake before and it works well as long as you don't work from hoppy to malty or from dark to light beers.  I guess I would also avoid going from a spiced beer to non-spiced to avoid that flavor carry over.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

Offline ajk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 230
  • Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)
    • View Profile
New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 08:37:55 AM »
Smoke also carries over.

Offline jmcamerlengo

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 625
    • View Profile
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2012, 09:11:03 AM »
Hop flavor and bittering can be transferred via the yeast into the subsequent ferment.  Color and roastiness can also be transferred via the yeast.   I've pitched onto yeast cake before and it works well as long as you don't work from hoppy to malty or from dark to light beers.  I guess I would also avoid going from a spiced beer to non-spiced to avoid that flavor carry over.

This +1
Jason
-Head Brewer, Brewtus Brewers in the Shenango Valley. Hopefully opening a brewpub/nano brewery in the next couple years.

Offline newrocset

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 04:10:58 PM »
Sweet!  I guess I'll have a little bit of Basil Flavor in my Pale Ale, but I think that's going to work in my favor and it will meld well with Columbus and Centennial and Cascade hops...plus I'm adding Citra Whole hops for dry hopping.
The Honey Basil Pale Ale involved the same grain bill as my pale ale with Columbus Bittering hop followed by the addition of basil at the last 5 minutes and flame out.
I'm going to add a tiny bit of gypsum as well to my APA to see if it gives it a little crispiness...as long as I don't melt in the heat, it should be all good  8)
Have a Kolsch and a smile!

Offline davidgzach

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1606
    • View Profile
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 06:26:21 AM »
Sounds interesting.  Please report back on how it turns out.
Dave Zach

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7565
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 12:11:01 PM »
You might be over pitching, but if the original beer isn't infected, reusing the yeast cake won't infect the next one.

"Might be" overpitching? Probably over pitching by 6Xs the amount. Maybe 8. The other concern is how much dead yeast you will be carrying over from previous batch. Not going to be a huge problem on first generation but on consecutive gens it can become a problem.

Not saying it can't be done and you may even have great results but you will have more consistent results if you pitch an "appropriate" amount. Usually, when I got ontop of an existing yeast cake it is only one gen and from a very low grav. beer to a very high.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline newrocset

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2012, 06:05:05 AM »
You might be over pitching, but if the original beer isn't infected, reusing the yeast cake won't infect the next one.

"Might be" overpitching? Probably over pitching by 6Xs the amount. Maybe 8. The other concern is how much dead yeast you will be carrying over from previous batch. Not going to be a huge problem on first generation but on consecutive gens it can become a problem.

Not saying it can't be done and you may even have great results but you will have more consistent results if you pitch an "appropriate" amount. Usually, when I got ontop of an existing yeast cake it is only one gen and from a very low grav. beer to a very high.

It's definitely an experiment since I'm going from same gravity to same gravity....at least it's only the 1st generation so I'm hoping it will give good results along with a fast fermentation.
Have a Kolsch and a smile!

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7565
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2012, 08:32:55 AM »
Well, I've done it many times before (as well as countless other people) and in my experience you will get better results, and much more consistent results by using a portion of the cake. Also, the "braun hefe" or brown, dried yeast on the sides of your carboy is something you are really better cleaning off. It has bitter, harsh hop compounds and dead yeast you really don't want in your beer.

I'm not a big fan of pitching directly on a yeast cake, especially not a low gravity beer. You are better off, IME, going with a portion of the slurry and a clean fermenter.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 13287
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2012, 08:51:47 AM »
Well, I've done it many times before (as well as countless other people) and in my experience you will get better results, and much more consistent results by using a portion of the cake. Also, the "braun hefe" or brown, dried yeast on the sides of your carboy is something you are really better cleaning off. It has bitter, harsh hop compounds and dead yeast you really don't want in your beer.

I'm not a big fan of pitching directly on a yeast cake, especially not a low gravity beer. You are better off, IME, going with a portion of the slurry and a clean fermenter.

My own experience is that I far prefer the results from using only part of a yeast slurry over using the whole thing in most circumstances.  I split the slurry into 2 or 3 containers when I save it.  The only time I use the whole thing is when I make an extremely high OG beer, say over 1.090.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline boapiu

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Palmetto Bay, FL
    • View Profile
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 03:15:56 PM »
I just tried this, pitching a fresh wort into the empty bucket that I just racked from. It was planned but did not execute well, the timing was rushed and I realized at the last moment that the primary I was emptying was a black IPA! Holy dark before light, Batman. It was too late at that time so I guess we will see what becomes of my pale ale wort. I will try to report back. In the future I hope to always take time to clean the collected yeast, at least a little and then make a starter. Still, this hobby has unlimited opportunities for discovery.  :-\
Beer is an ancient beverage that has been consumed as part of a balanced diet for centuries - it contains the goodness of sprouted grain extracted into rich liquid and fermented to produce a nutritional 'liquid cereal' beverage.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 7565
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2012, 07:22:20 AM »
You don't need a starter if the slurry is fresh. That's the beauty of yeast harvesting.
Keith Y.

Vote Jonathan Fuller for Governing Committee!

Offline newrocset

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: New Wort over an active yeast cake
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2012, 08:05:37 PM »
Update:
After a day of brewing in 100F heat, the wort ended flowing on top of the yeast at about 85F...it started bubbling as soon as it hit the yeast....then I transported it to a fermentation fridge across town....(this goes against all my brewing practices BTW)....plus it came out at a lower gravity than expected, about 1.040 (I was thinking I'd get at least 1.050!) - it was just a weird brew day altogether!

Guess what....this beer turned out superb...one of my best APA's ever....maybe it was the whole Citra dry hops, or that little bit of Gypsum I threw in, but I'm really happy with the results!  Hope I can repeat them....!
Have a Kolsch and a smile!