Author Topic: Brett and phenols?  (Read 3365 times)

Offline cfleisher

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Brett and phenols?
« on: July 13, 2012, 08:47:20 AM »
I just transferred a brett beer to the secondary and it was waaayyy phenolic. Much more than I'd hoped. My temperature control was pretty good and I have no reason to think this is a sanitation problem. (It was a split batch, and the other carboy with saison yeast was awesome.) Has anyone had this issue with Brett? Any chance the phenols will dissipate over time? It was in the primary for almost a month.

Primary: Jalapeno porter
Secondary: doppelbock

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 09:12:43 AM »
What were you fermenting with?  Typically the lambic blends contain a Belgian Sacch strain that is going to put out some phenolics, nothing over the top though.  What was your ferm temp and how were you controlling?
Lennie
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 11:29:01 PM »
What kind of phenols are we talking about?  Can you describe the flavor/aroma?
Tom Schmidlin

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2012, 04:57:39 AM »
Spicy clove, or Bandaid?
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline cfleisher

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2012, 09:18:35 AM »
Some spicy clove, but more toward bandaid or bicycle tire....not appealing. Fermentation temp was around 170, though it probably fluctuated 2-3 degrees because of a heat wave. There's a slight sour note but I wish it were more. I'm thinking of adding raspberries to the secondary. Suggestions on ways to hide this if the phenols don't mellow?

Primary: Jalapeno porter
Secondary: doppelbock

Offline jmcamerlengo

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 07:04:19 AM »
Some spicy clove, but more toward bandaid or bicycle tire....not appealing. Fermentation temp was around 170, though it probably fluctuated 2-3 degrees because of a heat wave. There's a slight sour note but I wish it were more. I'm thinking of adding raspberries to the secondary. Suggestions on ways to hide this if the phenols don't mellow?

170!!! holy moly!!! haha. assuming you meant 70...how long has it been sitting on the Brett? Brett can take quite a bit longer to ferment out, so it may still be doing some clean up work. Also which Brett strain did you use?
Jason
-Head Brewer, Brewtus Brewers in the Shenango Valley. Hopefully opening a brewpub/nano brewery in the next couple years.

Offline cfleisher

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012, 10:50:24 PM »
oops...yeah, it was 70 degrees, not "170." I'm letting it do its thing in a secondary for now and will see how it comes out. Crossing my fingers for a miracle.
Primary: Jalapeno porter
Secondary: doppelbock

Offline CASK1

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 04:57:39 PM »
What Brett strain did you use? Was it all Brett, or Brett in secondary? I recently did an all Brett clausenii Saison that started out with a lot of smoky/rubber phenolics. Over time the phenols faded and it turned into a nice beer with lots of tropical fruit and very low phenols. There's hope...

Offline pyrite

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2012, 08:01:27 AM »
The band-aid taste could often be a result of over sparging or sparging with water that is too hot.

The band-aid taste will not disipate over time.
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Offline garc_mall

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2012, 10:33:58 AM »
The band-aid taste could often be a result of over sparging or sparging with water that is too hot.

The band-aid taste will not disipate over time.

I thought the band-aid taste was from chlorinated water combining with hop and yeast phenols. Where did you get this information? I haven't heard it before.
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Offline Delo

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2012, 12:04:54 PM »
I thought the band-aid taste was from chlorinated water combining with hop and yeast phenols. Where did you get this information? I haven't heard it before.

Chlorine is what caused my band-aid problem in two batches. I have heard that oversparging and/ or too hot water sparge water can cause them too.  I also have heard contamination could also be the cause.

Dont recall what books I've read this in but here are some quick links I found.
http://byo.com/resources/troubleshooting
http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/2011/08/common-off-flavors/
http://morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors

Edited to add links.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 12:08:33 PM by Delo »

Offline pyrite

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2012, 12:12:12 PM »
The band-aid taste could often be a result of over sparging or sparging with water that is too hot.

The band-aid taste will not disipate over time.

I thought the band-aid taste was from chlorinated water combining with hop and yeast phenols. Where did you get this information? I haven't heard it before.


I've had similar problems with ban-aid flavors (only in my first two attempts at brewing lambics). In my case I traced it back to over sparging with overly hot water. I use RO water, and I know that chlorine or chloramine is not an issue for me.     

I still have a case of 4 year old peach and cherry lambic bottled that has a foul band-aid after taste.  That is why I am saying that the band-aid flavor does not go away. 
If you don't get in over your head, how are you ever going to know how tall you are.

Offline cfleisher

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Re: Brett and phenols?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2012, 11:19:30 AM »
The yeast I used was White Labs WLP650, and it was the only yeast I used. Based on what you guys have said, I'm guessing this is a contamination problem. I don't have chlorinated water (I'm on a well) and I'd say the oversparging could be the issue, if not for the fact that I split the batch in half and the carboy with a Saison yeast was awesome...no Band Aid at all.

Thanks for the input, everyone.
Primary: Jalapeno porter
Secondary: doppelbock