Author Topic: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??  (Read 10051 times)

Offline davidgzach

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 01:26:31 PM »
Never used it, never will.  But 4oz of acidulated malt brought my light lagers from 5.8 to 5.3!

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Offline beerstache

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 02:50:58 PM »
I guess I'm the contrarian here, as I have used 5.2 with great results, even won medals with it!  I dont get any off flavors either.  I dont check my mash ph, but do adjust my water accordingly for the beer style.
My 2 cents worth.

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2012, 06:05:42 PM »
I have a jar and used to use it. Then I started forgetting with increasing frequency. Now I never use it and don't notice a difference. I suspect that for those with bad water pH it might help some. The concept of a pH buffer is chemically valid, but that doesn't mean it makes good beer.
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Offline nateo

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2012, 07:37:06 PM »
The concept of a pH buffer is chemically valid, but that doesn't mean it makes good beer.

No one is arguing buffers don't exist, only that no one with a pH meter has ever seen "5.2 mash stabilizer" buffer a mash to a pH of 5.2.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 08:18:00 PM »
No one is arguing buffers don't exist, only that no one with a pH meter has ever seen "5.2 mash stabilizer" buffer a mash to a pH of 5.2.

Maybe I interpreted the original post wrong.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2012, 09:48:46 AM »
I still have to ask one of the Five Star guys in person about this product.  I'd like to get past the marketing explanation and would like to get a straight answer how this product works.  Maybe at the NHC 2013 we can get some of knowledgeable folks and not just the sales team.

Unfortunately 5.2 is a trade secret and not a patented product.

Kai
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 09:52:56 AM by Kaiser »

Offline dsjohns

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2013, 04:54:54 PM »
I know I'm resurrecting a dead thread, but just wanted to give my inputs.  Relatively new homebrewer, about 6 months of all grain.  Used 5.2 for the first time on a batch of Janet's brown.  Just had the first taste and it was phenomenal, but had a salty finish.  Pretty bummed to be honest, because I've been on a brewing spree and have 3 more beers coming through fermentation that I've done in the past 3 weeks that might have the same issue because I used it on all 3.  For reference, I'm using Boston water, which is very highly alkaline and has a very high pH and quite low "hardness".  This month we had a pH of 9.6 and alkalinity of 39.8.

I'm not going to say avoid at all costs, but this one just doesn't work for my beer styles or source water.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2013, 05:36:20 PM »
I still have to ask one of the Five Star guys in person about this product.  I'd like to get past the marketing explanation and would like to get a straight answer how this product works.  Maybe at the NHC 2013 we can get some of knowledgeable folks and not just the sales team.

Unfortunately 5.2 is a trade secret and not a patented product.

Kai

Kai,

Did you get to do this at NHC 2013? I am also curious about the "how". I mean, I know it doesn't work, but I'd sure like to see their side of the explanation.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2013, 07:44:40 PM »
Did you get to do this at NHC 2013? I am also curious about the "how". I mean, I know it doesn't work, but I'd sure like to see their side of the explanation.

I thought about it but did not bother. Oftentimes they don't send their R&D people to these conferences.

Kai

Offline Kaiser

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2013, 07:51:06 PM »
I know I'm resurrecting a dead thread, but just wanted to give my inputs.  Relatively new homebrewer, about 6 months of all grain.  Used 5.2 for the first time on a batch of Janet's brown.  Just had the first taste and it was phenomenal, but had a salty finish.  Pretty bummed to be honest, because I've been on a brewing spree and have 3 more beers coming through fermentation that I've done in the past 3 weeks that might have the same issue because I used it on all 3.  For reference, I'm using Boston water, which is very highly alkaline and has a very high pH and quite low "hardness".  This month we had a pH of 9.6 and alkalinity of 39.8.

An alkalinity of ~40 is not considered high. It's actually fairly low and instead of adding 5.2 I's just add 3% of acidulated malt for any light beer. For your Brown you should have been fine w/o any adjustment.

Water chemistry can be daunting. You can use this nice on-line calculator that I developed for Brewer's Friend: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/

I think Boston water is coming from the Quabin reservoir. This means it is surface water and these water's tend to be low in Alkalinity and hardness. Adding some calcium salts (Gypsum or Calcium Chloride) may help your beers.

Kai

Offline BHaase

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2013, 12:37:48 PM »
I threw out what I had remaining of 5.2, bought a pH meter, and haven`t looked back. I now use acidulated malt for my mash and Latic or phosphoric acid for my sparge water to lower my pH. In my case it was one the best moves I made to make better beers, along with cutting my existing water with DI water.  ;D
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2013, 12:40:52 PM »
I threw out what I had remaining of 5.2, bought a pH meter, and haven`t looked back. I now use acidulated malt for my mash and Latic or phosphoric acid for my sparge water to lower my pH. In my case it was one the best moves I made to make better beers, along with cutting my existing water with DI water.  ;D

So I understand why Kai likes acidulated malt, being german  ;D but I don't really get the point.

I mean it's just pilsner malt sprayed with lactic acid right? My little bottle of 88% lactic acid has already lasted 10-20 brew days and I'm not even half way through it and I don't have to remember to buy yet another specialty grain that does nothing for the flavour of the beer other than adjust the pH.

Any insight?
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Offline BHaase

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2013, 02:27:35 PM »
I think that you took my post the wrong way. My point was that using a pH meter was the best move I made, along with using DI water to cut my existing water profile. I do not need 5.2 because I now use acidulated malt in my mash to reduce the pH. I did not mean using acidulated malt made my beers better. You can use any acid (hydrochloric, latic, phosphoric, sulfuric, acidulated malt, etc.) to reduce pH, but without a way to measure the impacts your flying in the dark. I do brew mostly German beers and I try to keep to the Reinheitsgebot, so utilizing acidulated malt and carbonating with speise is my way to adhere to the law.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2013, 08:48:51 PM »
I think that you took my post the wrong way. My point was that using a pH meter was the best move I made, along with using DI water to cut my existing water profile. I do not need 5.2 because I now use acidulated malt in my mash to reduce the pH. I did not mean using acidulated malt made my beers better. You can use any acid (hydrochloric, latic, phosphoric, sulfuric, acidulated malt, etc.) to reduce pH, but without a way to measure the impacts your flying in the dark. I do brew mostly German beers and I try to keep to the Reinheitsgebot, so utilizing acidulated malt and carbonating with speise is my way to adhere to the law.

I understood your point.I was mostly just asking why people use acidulated malt in place of plain lactic acid to control pH?
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Offline BHaase

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Re: 5.2 PH Mash Stabilizer??
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2013, 06:36:55 AM »
I use it to maintain traditional German brewing practices, because of my German heritage. There is a fantastic thread on Homebrew Talk pinned as "A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer". It touches upon the use of 5.2, acidulated malt, latic, and a lot of other topics. It's a long read but very insightful http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

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« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 07:21:13 AM by BHaase »
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