[beersk]

I'm using 8.5 lbs Munich, .125 lb Carafa III, and Wyeast 2206.  I really want to experience a decoction mash and maybe I should ease into it with a single decoction.  I need to try things for myself to see if they are worth while.

I heard Kai say one time that if we didn't like the process of brewing, we would just go buy beer in the store and forget the hassle of homebrewing. I agree completely. So if you are really into brewing German Lagers with authentic brewing practices, decoction mashing will surely appeal to you.

This is why I don't care to ever go to an automated system where all the work is done for me.  That isn't brewing, to me.  Sure, sometimes I'm tired and just want to be done with it.  But the end result is the most satisfying part. Hochkurz decoction is pretty simple.  I think it's been mentioned.  Just do a rest at 144F or so for a bit, pull decoction, briefly rest at 155, boil for a bit, add back, to get to 158 or so, rest for a bit, then pull thin (liquid only) decoction, bring to boil and add back to get to mash out.  Sparge and you're done.  It takes a while, but it doesn't have to be difficult, just can get tedious. 
Kai did say that color contribution, even to a triple decoction, is very minimal, thus arguable. 

[dannyjed]

I'm using 8.5 lbs Munich, .125 lb Carafa III, and Wyeast 2206.  I really want to experience a decoction mash and maybe I should ease into it with a single decoction.  I need to try things for myself to see if they are worth while.

I heard Kai say one time that if we didn't like the process of brewing, we would just go buy beer in the store and forget the hassle of homebrewing. I agree completely. So if you are really into brewing German Lagers with authentic brewing practices, decoction mashing will surely appeal to you.

This is why I don't care to ever go to an automated system where all the work is done for me.  That isn't brewing, to me.  Sure, sometimes I'm tired and just want to be done with it.  But the end result is the most satisfying part. Hochkurz decoction is pretty simple.  I think it's been mentioned.  Just do a rest at 144F or so for a bit, pull decoction, briefly rest at 155, boil for a bit, add back, to get to 158 or so, rest for a bit, then pull thin (liquid only) decoction, bring to boil and add back to get to mash out.  Sparge and you're done.  It takes a while, but it doesn't have to be difficult, just can get tedious. 
Kai did say that color contribution, even to a triple decoction, is very minimal, thus arguable.

This sounds good to me.  One more thing, how long do I rest the main mash @144 and 158?

[mmitchem]

When I do those rests I usually do them for the amount of time it takes to do the decoction, which usually works out to somewhere between 45 minutes and an hour. I also tend to do my rest temps at 131, 148 and 162 then mash out at 170 on the hochkurz double decoction.

[dannyjed]

When I do those rests I usually do them for the amount of time it takes to do the decoction, which usually works out to somewhere between 45 minutes and an hour. I also tend to do my rest temps at 131, 148 and 162 then mash out at 170 on the hochkurz double decoction.

This makes sense.  I forgot that it'll take a while getting the decoction up to temp.  Thanks everyone and I will report back later with my results and/or errors.

[malzig]

I'm using 8.5 lbs Munich, .125 lb Carafa III, and Wyeast 2206.  I really want to experience a decoction mash and maybe I should ease into it with a single decoction.  I need to try things for myself to see if they are worth while.

That's fine, I sometimes do them myself for various reasons. 

It's just that your first post indicated that you were looking for more maltiness.  For that I'd swap in some Dark Munich and maybe consider 838, first.

Dunkel is just about my favorite style, and I now make one just about every other brewday.  Enjoy!

[denny]

I'm using 8.5 lbs Munich, .125 lb Carafa III, and Wyeast 2206.  I really want to experience a decoction mash and maybe I should ease into it with a single decoction.  I need to try things for myself to see if they are worth while.

FWIW, the experiment I did found that a single decoction had little to no affect on beer flavor.

[dannyjed]

I'm using 8.5 lbs Munich, .125 lb Carafa III, and Wyeast 2206.  I really want to experience a decoction mash and maybe I should ease into it with a single decoction.  I need to try things for myself to see if they are worth while.

FWIW, the experiment I did found that a single decoction had little to no affect on beer flavor.

I realize that it'll be hard for me to tell the difference without a side by side tasting.  I haven't made one for over a year.  Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment  , but at least I'll be able to check a decoction mash off my brewer's list.

[beersk]

I'm using 8.5 lbs Munich, .125 lb Carafa III, and Wyeast 2206.  I really want to experience a decoction mash and maybe I should ease into it with a single decoction.  I need to try things for myself to see if they are worth while.

FWIW, the experiment I did found that a single decoction had little to no affect on beer flavor.

I wonder what kind of difference you'd find in a single vs triple decoction experiment.  I just don't have the patience to do it.
For more maltiness you could as some melanoiden malt in also.

[nateo]

This afternoon I'm working on making sense of the results of an experiment I did, inspired by the experiment Denny is talking about. Tastes are subjective, and all that, but the one thing that's clear from my experiment so far is that whatever a triple decoction does/doesn't do, "specialty grains" do something completely different.

Full results and all the raw data will be released once I have a chance to review and synthesize it.

[denny]

I wonder what kind of difference you'd find in a single vs triple decoction experiment.  I just don't have the patience to do it.
For more maltiness you could as some melanoiden malt in also.

I agree with you, so I'll probably never know!

[beersk]

This afternoon I'm working on making sense of the results of an experiment I did, inspired by the experiment Denny is talking about. Tastes are subjective, and all that, but the one thing that's clear from my experiment so far is that whatever a triple decoction does/doesn't do, "specialty grains" do something completely different.

Full results and all the raw data will be released once I have a chance to review and synthesize it.

Interesting.  We are all eagerly awaiting the results.

[Kaiser]

... lets just say the last time I made one it was missing that malty component that I taste in German Dunkels. ...

How old was the beer when you tasted it?

I have found that a significant part of that deep "malty" flavor we get from doppelbocks and other dark beers has more to do with age than mashing.

Kai

[mmitchem]

I have found that a significant part of that deep "malty" flavor we get from doppelbocks and other dark beers has more to do with age than mashing.

+1 - If I let a doppelbock age for 4 or 5 months it is a completely different tasting beer. Tends to mellow out and have that thick maltiness. Now I have to go drink one...lol

[beersk]

... lets just say the last time I made one it was missing that malty component that I taste in German Dunkels. ...

How old was the beer when you tasted it?

I have found that a significant part of that deep "malty" flavor we get from doppelbocks and other dark beers has more to do with age than mashing.

Kai

Wow, Kai, this is the first post I've seen from you in a year.  Glad to see you back, hope things are going well.

And, I wish I could go drink one, but alas, I'm at work! That would be frowned upon...

[dannyjed]

... lets just say the last time I made one it was missing that malty component that I taste in German Dunkels. ...

How old was the beer when you tasted it?

I have found that a significant part of that deep "malty" flavor we get from doppelbocks and other dark beers has more to do with age than mashing.

Kai

It was not aged very long and that brings up a good point.  I did not lager it properly with it being held @ 38 for 2 weeks after primary.