Author Topic: Fauxpils results and discussion  (Read 16082 times)

Offline weithman5

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #90 on: August 10, 2012, 03:14:55 PM »
i let them sit for several days before i got to them and they were brilliantly clear.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2012, 01:28:44 PM »
If anyone is interested, I sent in the 5% version to the COC light hybrid comp as a 6B.

Here's the feedback:

Judge 1 (certified):
Checked "astringent" box on left.

Ar - 5/12. Upfront herbal hop aroma. Very light background malt aroma. No esters, no diacetyl, no DMS.

Ap - 2/3. Light hazy medium gold color with moderate to light head of medium size, white/off-white bubbles.

F - 11/20. Big herbal, slightly vegital (sic) hop flavor up front, continuing all the way through. Very light malt. Balanced sweetness with low hop bitterness. Hop bitterness lingers with some fruity ester sweetness.

M - 4/5. Medium/light, dry mouthfeel & body. No warmth, light astringency in finish.

O - 5/10. Has some blonde roots, but misses the mark with all those hops. Lower hop level and/or boost malt profile. Good carb level and color, and the type of malt used. Tasty.

T - 27/50

Judge 2 (not certified):
Checked "DMS" and "astringent" boxes on left.

Ar - 7/12. Hop aroma immidiately apparent, some herbal (strain? [illegible]). Is it palisade? I couldn't detect mush else in the aroma, perhaps a light malt in the background. Could consider it a medium level hop aroma.

Ap - 3/3. Dark yellow to golden color, Good clarity, not brilliant. Medium head retention with [illegible] in the bubbles.

F - 10/20. Flavor is dominated by hop flavor (probably same as aroma). There is some light to light-medium malt as well. Fairly clean, balanced towards hop. Finishes dry/bitter with a slight astringency. Not balanced correctly. Should be more towards malt side.

M - 3/5. Medium body, medium carbonation + a creaminess as well. Very low warming in the finish, mostly just bitterness in the finish.

O - 5/10. This beer is mainly not balanced correctly + is very herbal. I would tone down the hops a bit next time. Interesting hop selection.

T - 28/50.
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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #92 on: October 18, 2012, 03:00:12 PM »
wow, tough judges huh? I havn't recieved my sheets yet, they might be at home in  the mail as we speak. I didn't win though.  :(
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #93 on: October 18, 2012, 03:17:57 PM »
wow. i just went back through my comments.  they sure seemed to detect more hops than what i would have felt. i thought they were appropriate.  i did see that i had a "tang" noted.  i suspect this may be astringency as it is way evident in my beers now that you pointed it out when you sampled mine and i am more tuned in to it.  i don't know that it was evident in your beers enough to note it.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #94 on: October 18, 2012, 06:32:18 PM »
Yeah, I really thought the hops were present but low. The only thing I can think is that all the others in the flight had very low hop flavor/aroma so mine stuck out.

I haven't tried palisade hops. Are they similar to crystal?

I'm not a big fan of entering contests in general, but I was the only one in my club who had a cat 6 beer ready to go for the comp.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #95 on: October 20, 2012, 06:20:44 AM »
i am not sure much about those hops.  i am pretty limited to what i grow,(santiem, magnum, sterling) and i have used hallertau, willamette, and mt hood a bit
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Offline nateo

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #96 on: October 20, 2012, 09:23:55 AM »
I'm really interested in what caused the perceived astringency in these beers, especially the no-sparge. My pH and temps were all in the proper range, and I took a lot of care when I crushed the grain. I wonder if it was just that the relative dryness accentuated astringency that would've been covered up if the beers had been sweeter?

I cracked open a bottle of 5% last night to drink while looking over the notes, and I kinda see the "herbal" hop character, but I thought it was pretty restrained, in the grand scheme of beer. I'm coming to realize that I'm just incapable of brewing "to style" and I should quit entering comps.
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Offline tom

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #97 on: October 20, 2012, 09:56:29 AM »
I wouldn't take it as gospel from one certified and one not certified judge.
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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2012, 10:08:37 AM »
There certainly are folks with very keen palates that have little or no BJCP rank, but I too would caution against validating the findings of a Certified and an un-ranked judge.  An untrained palate may consider elevated bittering to be 'astringency'.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #99 on: October 20, 2012, 02:49:49 PM »
Nateo, how old were the hops. I recently brewed a English style pale ale with old hops (maybe 3 years) that I had in the freezer. The beer has what I call a dusty finish. I hat this off flavor before and at this point I blame it on using old hops.

I once had a pack of Hallertauer that I used on the first few beers I brewed at the then new house. The flavor made me research water and pH since I thought it was astringency coming from the grain. The first beer I brewed with new hops was one of the best I ever brewed. When I used the other hops again I realized that they were to blame.

Kai

Offline nateo

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #100 on: October 20, 2012, 03:08:23 PM »
Kai - They were from the 2011 crop, so not exactly young, but I didn't think they were that old. They had been in a ziplock for about 4 months when I used them, so they weren't vacuum sealed anymore. I had some Willamette from 2010 that grew kinda grassy/unpleasant, so I think I know what you're talking about. I've also had some cascade leaf hops that got super oxidized (the beer tasted like cardboard), so I know the flavor is distinct from oxidation.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #101 on: October 22, 2012, 06:34:28 AM »
There certainly are folks with very keen palates that have little or no BJCP rank, but I too would caution against validating the findings of a Certified and an un-ranked judge.  An untrained palate may consider elevated bittering to be 'astringency'.

that's just it though, i didn't think these beers were all that bitter
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Offline nateo

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Re: Fauxpils results and discussion
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2012, 02:16:21 PM »
I'm down to my last bottle of 5%, so I thought I'd do one more A/B comparison. They're almost 6 months old now, so I thought I'd check in on how they've aged.

Aroma - 3X slightly more "floral" hops-scented, 5% had a more distinct malt aroma (like a vienna lager). Both had very little aroma.

Appearance - 3X formed about an inch of dense white head, which lingered throughout the glass. 5% formed about 1mm of head, which mostly subsided. Clarity was outstanding on both. You could read a newspaper through either, but 3X appeared slightly clearer, possibly because of the lighter color. 3X had slightly better lacing, but the difference was minimal.

Flavor - The hop flavor from 3X was more floral, while 5% was more herbal. 5% seemed both more sweet and more bitter; more sweet initially then more bitter in the finish. Maybe related to the herbal character of the hops? 3X had a more subtle, but nuanced flavor. 5% was more "one-dimensional."

Mouthfeel - 3X is noticeably drier, with perceptible, but not obnoxious, astringency. The mouthfeel on 3X seemed more full. Carbonation levels seemed close, maybe the same, but I'm not great at perceiving small differences in carbonation.

Overall - I think 3X has aged more gracefully. 3X is better, and 5% is worse, than I remembered them being. But the differences weren't pronounced enough to fundamentally change the perception of the beers. The subtle herbaceous character that developed in 5% is definitely interesting, and I'm not sure what's going on there.

At 6 months, I'd say 3X is a slightly better beer. The hop character is fresher, the mouthfeel is fuller, and the flavor is more balanced. There are so many variables I won't say, definitively, that decoction increases the cellar-ability of a beer, or anything like that, but it's interesting to see how the beers have evolved. I'm acutely aware of the possibility that "operator error" could be responsible for all of the differences.
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