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Sam Adams Noble Pils clone

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jgourd:
So I tried this beer a while back at their R&D brewery and I loved it.  Trying to clone it.  A 5-gal recipe sounds great.  From their web site, we find that they use 2-row Harrington, Metcalfe, and Czech pilsner malts.  And for the hops, the typical Noble variety: Hallertau Mittelfruh, Tettnang Tattnanger, Spalt Spalter, Saaz, and Hallertau Hersbrucker.  No idea how to partition the grain or when the hops get added in the boil.  As you can probably tell, I'm fairly new to this.  But, I've hacked a first recipe.  Anyone care to steer me in the right direction?  Thanks!

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG (matches the web site)
Estimated FG: 1.011 SG
Estimated ABV: 5.04 % (web site is 5.2%)
Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 41.4 IBU
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)             Grain   92.31 %
0.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain    5.13 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)     Grain    2.56 %
0.75 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min)                Hops    11.5 IBU
1.00 oz Spalter [4.50 %] (60 min)                 Hops    15.3 IBU
0.75 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops     5.1 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops     6.8 IBU
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min)                     Hops     2.7 IBU
1 Pkg Czech Budejovice Lager (White Labs #WLP802)

Thanks!
--
JGourd

babalu87:

--- Quote from: jgourd on February 12, 2010, 03:49:11 PM ---So I tried this beer a while back at their R&D brewery and I loved it.  Trying to clone it.  A 5-gal recipe sounds great.  From their web site, we find that they use 2-row Harrington, Metcalfe, and Czech pilsner malts.  And for the hops, the typical Noble variety: Hallertau Mittelfruh, Tettnang Tattnanger, Spalt Spalter, Saaz, and Hallertau Hersbrucker.  No idea how to partition the grain or when the hops get added in the boil.  As you can probably tell, I'm fairly new to this.  But, I've hacked a first recipe.  Anyone care to steer me in the right direction?  Thanks!

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG (matches the web site)
Estimated FG: 1.011 SG
Estimated ABV: 5.04 % (web site is 5.2%)
Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 41.4 IBU
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)             Grain   92.31 %
0.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain    5.13 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)     Grain    2.56 %
0.75 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min)                Hops    11.5 IBU
1.00 oz Spalter [4.50 %] (60 min)                 Hops    15.3 IBU
0.75 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops     5.1 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops     6.8 IBU
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min)                     Hops     2.7 IBU
1 Pkg Czech Budejovice Lager (White Labs #WLP802)

Thanks!
--
JGourd

--- End quote ---

Boil 90 minutes and make a starter
Other than that I wouldnt begin to guess on the hop schedule as I have only had it once.

jgourd:

--- Quote from: babalu87 on February 13, 2010, 06:09:09 AM ---
--- Quote from: jgourd on February 12, 2010, 03:49:11 PM ---So I tried this beer a while back at their R&D brewery and I loved it.  Trying to clone it.  A 5-gal recipe sounds great.  From their web site, we find that they use 2-row Harrington, Metcalfe, and Czech pilsner malts.  And for the hops, the typical Noble variety: Hallertau Mittelfruh, Tettnang Tattnanger, Spalt Spalter, Saaz, and Hallertau Hersbrucker.  No idea how to partition the grain or when the hops get added in the boil.  As you can probably tell, I'm fairly new to this.  But, I've hacked a first recipe.  Anyone care to steer me in the right direction?  Thanks!

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG (matches the web site)
Estimated FG: 1.011 SG
Estimated ABV: 5.04 % (web site is 5.2%)
Estimated Color: 4.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 41.4 IBU
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)             Grain   92.31 %
0.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain    5.13 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)     Grain    2.56 %
0.75 oz Tettnang [4.50 %] (60 min)                Hops    11.5 IBU
1.00 oz Spalter [4.50 %] (60 min)                 Hops    15.3 IBU
0.75 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops     5.1 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops     6.8 IBU
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (5 min)                     Hops     2.7 IBU
1 Pkg Czech Budejovice Lager (White Labs #WLP802)

Thanks!
--
JGourd

--- End quote ---

Boil 90 minutes and make a starter
Other than that I wouldnt begin to guess on the hop schedule as I have only had it once.

--- End quote ---

I've thought about making this a 90 minute boil as well.  And a starter goes without saying; I agree.  In terms of the hop schedule, in checking out the hop characteristics and tasting the beer, it seems that certain hops like the Tettnang and Spalter have some spicy characteristics which is why I've put them for use as bittering hops.  The hallertaus are clean and slightly herbal, and I notice that flavor in the Noble Pils.  Of course, the Saaz are typical for pilsner aroma.  By the way, a 90 minute boil would change things a bit in terms of the hop schedule.  I'll see what that might turn out to be and post something later.  Thanks for the input.  Oh and to be honest, there's probably no need for the pale malt and the crystal.  I might just replace the pale malt with pilsner malt and use carapils instead of the crystal.

jgourd:
So I spoke to a guy at Sam Adams this morning after he read my email asking for some info on this beer so that I could brew it myself throughout the year.  Here's what he had to say about this brew:

1. The Noble Pils is 35 IBUs.

2. They krausen theirs as opposed to using carapils, and that's how they get the mouthfeel and head.  He figured making an extra bit of wort and taking off about 1/6th of it and storing in fridge or freezer.  Same for the yeast starter (1/6 in the fridge).  This mixture (wort+yeast) will be added in the secondary once it's actively fermenting and will help clean up diacetyl.  Now they don't use this technique to carbonate their beer, but it could be used to do so.  In other words, I could lager and then add this actively fermenting yeast in before bottling (need to calculate how much).  It would then carbonate without needing priming sugar or DME.

3. He suggested to put 1 oz. of each hop (5 nobles) in a cup, mix, and drop in the boil equally at 60, 15, and 0.  Then dry hop with 1.5 to 2 oz. in the same way (all 5 nobles evenly split) in the secondary for about 7 days.

4. Use a docoction mash.  Start with 80% of the grain and mash (ratio of 1.25 qts/lb) at 122F until conversion.  Boil remaining 20% (also with ratio of 1.25 qts/lb) and add to mash tun once mash is finished to raise temp to 153F *quickly* (a point he emphasized).  Mash at 153F until conversion.

5. They lager theirs for 3 weeks at 31F.

So I'll start with this and see how it goes.  He did mention that he did not know the *exact* recipe, but that it would be pretty close.  I still don't like the hop schedule, but I'm willing to try a few different versions.  I mean, either way, the beer will be good.

blatz:
interesting stuff jgourd - thanks for passing that along.

I'm curious as I've never heard krausening as a substitute for carapils?  that's new to me, but I'm sure someone like kaiser has an explanation (hint, hint  ;)

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