Author Topic: Old Extract?  (Read 6128 times)

Offline Wesbrau

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Old Extract?
« on: August 18, 2012, 09:17:09 AM »
Recently, I brewed an extract batch using LME (pale/gold and munich).  When we opened up the extract, both the pale and the munich LME had a very noticeable molasses-like aroma too it and was a lot darker than we anticipated.  We were shooting for a very light colored pale ale and wound up with something very red.  The molasses/syrupy character also appears in the finished beer.  Since switching to all grain brewing, I haven't used extract for many years and I have long since forgotten what extract should smell like.  Does this sound like it was old extract?  Thanks very much,

Wes
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Offline denny

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2012, 09:35:37 AM »
It sounds like it to me.  That's why I use DME when I use extract.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 05:43:05 AM »
It sounds like it to me.  That's why I use DME when I use extract.

+1
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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 10:10:10 AM »
Regardless of the age, I find that LME always results in a darker beer than I had intended (unless it was to be a dark beer, regardless).

I used pale ale LME recently, and my tripel looks like a dubbel.
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Offline euge

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 10:28:05 AM »
Regardless of the age, I find that LME always results in a darker beer than I had intended (unless it was to be a dark beer, regardless).

I used pale ale LME recently, and my tripel looks like a dubbel.

I find this to be the case as well.
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Offline Wesbrau

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 10:47:21 AM »
Thanks, guys.  I can handle the color.  But the stale, molasses/syrup thing is no good.  Funny thing, I bought it from a place that touts their high turnover on extract, ensuring that they provide the freshest.  Switching to DME for any future extract beers. 
Wes

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 11:30:29 AM »
I recall someone on TechTalk years ago (I want to say it was John Blichmann) had done some tests using old cans of extract.

My recollection is that over pitching the yeast for some reason reduced the off flavors from stale extract.

I could probably search my archives for it, but I'm pretty certain my recollection is correct.

Not that I am recommending using old extract, but if you need to you can minimize the badness.
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Offline denny

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 11:34:54 AM »
I recall someone on TechTalk years ago (I want to say it was John Blichmann) had done some tests using old cans of extract.

My recollection is that over pitching the yeast for some reason reduced the off flavors from stale extract.

I could probably search my archives for it, but I'm pretty certain my recollection is correct.

Not that I am recommending using old extract, but if you need to you can minimize the badness.

Pretty sure it was Dan Listermann.
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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 11:51:22 AM »
I think you are correct.  Both end in -mann, so I was kinda close.
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Offline andrew000141

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Old Extract?
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2012, 09:26:45 PM »
DME is always the better choice. I don't know about your local homebrew shop but at mine theyre the same price so if I follow a recipe with LME then I just switch it to DME 3.3 lme = 3lbs DME the .3 is all water weight
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Offline Wesbrau

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2012, 12:14:29 AM »
Did the same recipe today substituting DME for the LME and what a difference that made.  My pale ale is actually pale, instead of the red ale the LME gave me.  Smelled much more like my all grain batches, too.  Thanks, everyone, for the tip.

By the way, on the last beer I made with the LME, the molasses character in the LME carried over into the finished beer.  Way too thick, sweet and with a flavor and aroma of molasses/syrup.  Dumper batch.  Not doing LME again.
Wes

Offline csu007

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2012, 02:04:59 AM »
I would like to switch to DME but my go LHBS charges double for DME vs LME

3lbs LME- $7.50, 3lbs DME $15
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Offline andrew000141

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Old Extract?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2012, 02:46:10 AM »
Yes unfortunately some (actually most i believe) brew shops charge more for DME. I'm sure if you really want to cut out the LME then you can find some cheap DME online
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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2012, 05:30:46 AM »
I recall someone on TechTalk years ago (I want to say it was John Blichmann) had done some tests using old cans of extract.

My recollection is that over pitching the yeast for some reason reduced the off flavors from stale extract.

I'd guess that the DME oxidation/aging causes the wort to underattenuate and pitching plenty of yeast helps bump the attenuation back up. It would also minimize esters, etc which might exagerate mollasses/caramel flavors.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Old Extract?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2012, 06:26:21 AM »
pitching lots of yeast is an interesting idea. It's possible that the yeast adsorbs some of the flavors.

I saw something similar in this patent for low calorie beer: http://www.google.com/patents?id=InU8AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

One of the methods in this patent is a low pitching rate such that the extended yeast growth absorbs unwanted flavors:

Quote
However, unlike a conventional beer fermentation process, the cooled wort is oxygenated using substantially pure oxygen, and the Brewer's yeast is added at a relatively low pitching rate, typically, and preferably in the range of about 30 to 60 grams pressed yeast per 100 liters wort, and preferably about 45 grams pressed yeast per 100 liters wort. The normal pitching rate is about 170 grams pressed (wet) yeast per 100 liters of wort. This is a departure from prior art brewing techniques and is unexpected since prior art attempts to produce beer at relatively low pitching rates using conventional worts and normal aeration reportedly do not produce satisfactory fermentation results. (See B. H. Kirsop, The Brewer's Digest, July 1978, page 28 to 32). Adding the brewer's yeast at such a low pitching rate to oxygenated wort permits the yeast to absorb substantially all harsh and grainy flavors normally present in the wort.

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