Author Topic: Band Aid Beer  (Read 3744 times)

Offline nateo

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2012, 10:16:19 AM »
6.)  Its Jamils American Wheat, and wheat supposedly contains more ferrulic acid than other malts...(used white wheat malt)

8.)  I know pH being off can cause this phenol

Yet another lesson why NOT TO RUSH A BEER!

Barley malt contains more ferulic acid than wheat malt. (on average) http://www.scientificsocieties.org/jib/papers/1996/1996_102_5_327.pdf
 
How would mash pH affect 4-ethylphenol production?

How would rushing a beer affect 4-ethylphenol production?
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2012, 10:18:30 AM »
Warm temps don't cause band-aid type phenols, anyway. Bet is on wild yeast, stressed yeast or chlorine bleach/unfiltered water. I doubt you can get rid of them by fining.
Keith Y.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2012, 11:01:20 AM »
Cause 3: Too Warm The flip side of the coin could be that the temperature was warm, e.g. 75¡F, and the yeast got the job done ahead of schedule. This often happens when a lot of yeast is pitched, the primary fermentation can be complete within 48 hours. This is not necessarily a good thing, as ferments above 70¡F tend to produce a lot of esters and phenolics that just don't taste right. The beer will still be good, just not as good as it could have been. It will depend on your tastes and the

out of how to brew. 

the time i had this problem, i both lost control of temp (pure negligence) and forgot the campden (blaming my age)
Don AHA member

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2012, 11:02:47 AM »
I think esters and fusels are the real problem of fermenting warm. Not phenolics.
Keith Y.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2012, 11:18:20 AM »
..., stressed yeast .....

Stressed yeast should not cause them either since the yeast needs to have the right genes to produce phenolic compounds. That's why temperatures can't do this either. Unless the yeast mutated, though.

Kai

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2012, 11:30:02 AM »
..., stressed yeast .....

Stressed yeast should not cause them either since the yeast needs to have the right genes to produce phenolic compounds. That's why temperatures can't do this either. Unless the yeast mutated, though.

Kai

Yeah, I meant mutation. Wasn't even aware I typed "stressed".
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Offline weithman5

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2012, 11:30:56 AM »
i will note that the problem when i had it i had a chlorine problem as well.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 12:15:50 PM »
Yeah, I meant mutation. Wasn't even aware I typed "stressed".

I was contemplating if I should nitpick that one. But I thought it would be useful information and if not, we could get a good discussion out of it.

Kai

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2012, 01:46:15 PM »
By all means, nip pick away! :D
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Offline mpietropaoli

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2012, 08:49:22 PM »
Cause 3: Too Warm The flip side of the coin could be that the temperature was warm, e.g. 75¡F, and the yeast got the job done ahead of schedule. This often happens when a lot of yeast is pitched, the primary fermentation can be complete within 48 hours. This is not necessarily a good thing, as ferments above 70¡F tend to produce a lot of esters and phenolics that just don't taste right. The beer will still be good, just not as good as it could have been. It will depend on your tastes and the out of how to brew.  the time i had this problem, i both lost control of temp (pure negligence) and forgot the campden (blaming my age)

Ummm, this.  This is likely what happened, plus the fact that I used old-arse yeast.  I pitched a ton of yeast (2000ml heavily active starter) for this gravity ALE (1.055ish).  I only moved it out of temp control into the mid-70's because I had to make room for a super-late O-fest in my ferm fridge.  I figured better to control the temp on the wheat early, then ramp up and have it finish quickly, since I needed to have it ready* for Labor Day.  When I moved it out of the ferm fridge, set to a temp of 65, the beer was down to 1.12ish and already had a slight band-aid flavor (krausen still present).  I figured moving to 75 or so ambient temp (while also clearing the ferm fridge) would get the yeast kicked up and plow through the rest of the sugars, and make a good clean, dry wheat that everyone could quaff all weekend. 

The only thing that leads me to believe the fermentation didn't happen so quickly (as per the quote) was taht the krausen hadn't subsided (US-05) until I cool-crashed it (at 50 where the O-fest was, back in the ferm fridge). 

In any event, the beer is okay, but not up to my standards, and I figured it was either dump it or mess with it.  Therefore, I boiled 3lbs of chopped dried apricots, racked the beer from keg back to a fermenter, cooled the apricots, dumped them in the wheat, aerated, then pitched about a cup of bavarian lager yeast, and set in the ferm fridge, still set @ 50 degrees. 

I figure, why admit defeat when, as a true Clark Griwold disciple, I can futz with something, likely compound the problem, and make a huge @$$ out of myself and throw good money after bad?

*By "ready", I mean "rushed", as in, the beer is good but not great and I'm not serving it to my guests, friends and family.  Kegged up (after removing the wheat, as its my first and only keg) a California Common that is F$#!ING fantastic in its place.  Lesson for the kids:  NEVER brew on a short timetable and ALWAYS have a back up plan. 
Primary: Common Cider; Xmas FauxCAP
Kegged: Pliny Clone; Rodney's Weizenbock; RIS
Bottled: Putain Biere de Garde; 51 RIS; Glutang Clan Roggenbier
Cellaring: Biere de Mars; Flanders
Planned: Schwarz

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Re: Band Aid Beer
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2012, 04:46:41 AM »
I'm pretty confident the problem had to do with the over handling of the yeast and the fact that it had either mutated during the long storage or got contaminated with wild yeast. Warm fermentation is more of a problem with fusels and unpleasant esters, not phenolics.

Regardless, US-05 ferments pretty clean into the mid 70s. It makes a nicer beer in the mid 60s, but it doesn't produce a ton of of flavors in the low to mid 70's - especially if you start the beer off cool. If you fermented in the mid 70's for 48-72 hours and then ramped it up into the mid 70s you would be fine. Most ester and fusel development happens during the first 48 hours. Doesn't sound like, even if warm temps did cause problems with phenolics, that you started the fermentation warm.
Keith Y.
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