[phunhog]

I think this is one beer style where technique plays a big role.  I have only brewed a Black IPA once but it was one of my favorite beers.  The key I think is adding the dark malts only during the vorlauf and sparge. Gordon Strong talks about this in his book and it is where I got the idea from.  I doubt many commercial breweries do this. The dark grains, IMO, really are there to add color and ideally a not whole lot else.  The BIPA that I made still had a slight roast to it but it still tasted like an IPA.  A pro brewer tasted it and loved it and he even makes a BIPA....if that means anything

[gmac]

So the "style" is wide open.
Based on what I've read here I I'll stick to regular old IPAs.

[nateo]

So the "style" is wide open.
Based on what I've read here I I'll stick to regular old IPAs.

If the "style" is wide open, is that really a style? Or just a loose collection of characteristics?

[phunhog]

Here is the "style" descriptor for GABF

63. American–Style Black Ale
American-style Black Ales are very dark to black and perceived to have medium high to high hop bitterness,
flavor and aroma with medium-high alcohol content, balanced with a medium body. Fruity, floral and herbal
character from hops of all origins may contribute character. The style is further characterized by a balanced and
moderate degree of caramel malt and dark roasted malt flavor and aroma. High astringency and high degree of
burnt roast malt character should be absent.
Original Gravity (ºPlato): 1.056-1.075 (14-18.2 ºPlato) ● Apparent Extract/Final Gravity (ºPlato): 1.012-
1.018 (3-4.5 ºPlato) ● Alcohol by Weight (Volume): 5-6% (6 -7.5%) ● Bitterness (IBU): 50-70 ● Color SRM
(EBC): 35+ (70+ EBC)

[nateo]

GABF #63 sounds a lot like BJCP 13E to me.

[udubdawg]

anyone tried New Glarus Black Top?  (won the category at '11 GABF)

To me this is how the style should be.  It's moderately dark brown, and while I don't know if there is actually molasses in there it tastes like it, and the description says "Brewmaster Dan skillfully weaves molasses and chocolate malt undertones..." so I'm assuming there is.  Could be a descriptor of flavor rather than ingredients though.  The black/roast/chocolate characters are very smooth.

Of course, I made a passable clone attempt a while back and judges said it 1) wasn't dark enough and 2) wasn't roasty enough.     Whatever.

cheers--
--Michael

[beersk]

anyone tried New Glarus Black Top?  (won the category at '11 GABF)

To me this is how the style should be.  It's moderately dark brown, and while I don't know if there is actually molasses in there it tastes like it, and the description says "Brewmaster Dan skillfully weaves molasses and chocolate malt undertones..." so I'm assuming there is.  Could be a descriptor of flavor rather than ingredients though.  The black/roast/chocolate characters are very smooth.

Of course, I made a passable clone attempt a while back and judges said it 1) wasn't dark enough and 2) wasn't roasty enough.     Whatever.

cheers--
--Michael

Black Top is tasty beer. I think my favorite commercial black IPA is Sublimely Self-Righteous.  Otherwise, I brew one that is my favorite of all, called None More Black.  Because how much more black can it be? The answer is none, none more black!

And as far as flavor goes, I like to have a little roast flavor in there to meld with the citrusy hops.

[ynotbrusum]

Taste choice wise, I have moved away from really hoppy beers (so my comment may be discounted as old school), but I like to add some Blackprinz from a cold steep to get color and slight roastiness in this style of beer and then restrain the hops a little in terms of alphas; that made an eminently drinkable CDA.  A little less of a tongue scraper.

[The Professor]

So the "style" is wide open.
Based on what I've read here I I'll stick to regular old IPAs.

If the "style" is wide open, is that really a style? Or just a loose collection of characteristics?

I vote for the latter..."a loose collection of characteristics". 
Then again, that is the case with a good many 'styles'.  In some cases, I would even add the word 'arbitrary', since most of them are just variants or loose interpretations of actual styles..

[BrewingRover]

anyone tried New Glarus Black Top?  (won the category at '11 GABF)

To me this is how the style should be.  It's moderately dark brown, and while I don't know if there is actually molasses in there it tastes like it, and the description says "Brewmaster Dan skillfully weaves molasses and chocolate malt undertones..." so I'm assuming there is.  Could be a descriptor of flavor rather than ingredients though.  The black/roast/chocolate characters are very smooth.

I tried that last weekend and liked it a lot. It's too bad New Glarus got fed up with Illinois and stopped distributing here.

My favorite black blah blah is Firestone Walker's Wookey Jack. It's got a fair amount of rye that really adds a lot, IMHO.