Author Topic: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio  (Read 2692 times)

Offline babalu87

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2010, 12:04:56 PM »

Temperature too.
I nail my mash temp everytime.

I can never nail my temps with decoctions, at least using calculated amounts.  I need to pull a ot more and keep adding it back til I get where I want.  Guess I'm decoction dysfunctional!



Maybe you dont trust it enough  ;D

I have to admit when adding back I often think "No way I can add all this back in, its gonna overshoot my mash temp"
Jeff

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Offline mikeypedersen

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2010, 12:19:33 PM »

Temperature too.
I nail my mash temp everytime.

I can never nail my temps with decoctions, at least using calculated amounts.  I need to pull a ot more and keep adding it back til I get where I want.  Guess I'm decoction dysfunctional!


Does any of that have to do with altitude?  I know that my water boils between 204 and 205 degrees where I am, so I would think that would throw off the calculated amounts that were calculated based on a boil temp of 212?

Of course, maybe your software accounts for that.....

Offline denny

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2010, 12:21:10 PM »

Temperature too.
I nail my mash temp everytime.

I can never nail my temps with decoctions, at least using calculated amounts.  I need to pull a ot more and keep adding it back til I get where I want.  Guess I'm decoction dysfunctional!


Does any of that have to do with altitude?  I know that my water boils between 204 and 205 degrees where I am, so I would think that would throw off the calculated amounts that were calculated based on a boil temp of 212?

Of course, maybe your software accounts for that.....

Not in my case....I'm fairly close to sea level.  I think it has more to do with using a cooler which resists temp changes....maybe....
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Offline denny

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2010, 12:22:17 PM »

Maybe you dont trust it enough  ;D

 ;)
I have to admit when adding back I often think "No way I can add all this back in, its gonna overshoot my mash temp"


It's the other way in my case...if I just use the calculated amount, I fall far short of the temp step I'm aiming for.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2010, 02:03:16 PM »
Quote
It's the other way in my case...if I just use the calculated amount, I fall far short of the temp step I'm aiming for.

I think that is because when you remove grain you have less thermal mass in mash tun and it will lose more heat.
That was also my experience.
Now I do decoction with HERMS and if I am low I will just raise it up.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2010, 05:12:18 PM »
I can never nail my temps with decoctions, at least using calculated amounts.  I need to pull a ot more and keep adding it back til I get where I want.  Guess I'm decoction dysfunctional!

No you are not. And I found that it is key to pull more and add it until the temp is reached. That is for destination rests where the temp is critical. I don't worry about this for mash-out decoctions.

There are a number of formulas out there that try to take into account details like mash thickness. But none of them takes into account evaporation during the boil and temp drop of the main mash while you do the decoction. As a result you are very likely to undershoot your target temp. That's where the frustration with decoction starts. Just take 10-20% more and return the decoction until you hit your target. This process is much easier to control for home brewers. Especially when decoction mashing is a once in a while thing and you haven't figured out the exact volumes through trial end error.

Kai

Offline ndcube

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2010, 05:19:56 PM »
Denny - What calc do you use when you miss your target temp?

Babalu - What calc do you use when you hit it?  What temp do you do your first rests at for your Dunkel & Hefe?

Offline babalu87

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2010, 06:08:59 PM »
110 to 133 that is infusion then I pull about 2+ gallons of THICK decoction for every 10lbs of grain.
I've never calculated, just pull until it feels right (damn that sounds bad)
I always add top up water that is simmering in a tea pot towards the end of the decoction boil so I always have the volume I started with.
Easy to tell as the pot will have a fairly easy to distinguish line where the volume was at the start.
Jeff

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Offline bluesman

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2010, 06:41:48 PM »

Temperature too.
I nail my mash temp everytime.

I can never nail my temps with decoctions, at least using calculated amounts.  I need to pull a ot more and keep adding it back til I get where I want.  Guess I'm decoction dysfunctional!



I think it's just tough to nail them in a cooler. A RIMS system would make it so much easier.
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Offline ndcube

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2010, 06:51:04 PM »
110 to 133 that is infusion then I pull about 2+ gallons of THICK decoction for every 10lbs of grain.
I've never calculated, just pull until it feels right (damn that sounds bad)
I always add top up water that is simmering in a tea pot towards the end of the decoction boil so I always have the volume I started with.
Easy to tell as the pot will have a fairly easy to distinguish line where the volume was at the start.

Teapot!  Man, I need more burners.

Offline babalu87

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2010, 08:04:32 PM »
110 to 133 that is infusion then I pull about 2+ gallons of THICK decoction for every 10lbs of grain.
I've never calculated, just pull until it feels right (damn that sounds bad)
I always add top up water that is simmering in a tea pot towards the end of the decoction boil so I always have the volume I started with.
Easy to tell as the pot will have a fairly easy to distinguish line where the volume was at the start.

Teapot!  Man, I need more burners.

I always do decoctions on my stovetop.
We have a cast iron diffuser so I can crank the gas burner to high and not scorch the mash
Jeff

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IIPA, Stout, Hefeweizen, Hallertau Pale Ale, Bitter

Primary:
Hefeweizen,Berliner Weisse, Mead

Offline ndcube

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2010, 04:31:25 AM »
I always do decoctions on my stovetop.
We have a cast iron diffuser so I can crank the gas burner to high and not scorch the mash

Yeah, I use the stove too if I need extra burners.  Luckily I have gas which I think is easier to use.  I try not to have to use it in the winter though to minimize letting cold air in the kitchen and freezing out the rest of the family.

Offline denny

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Re: Decoction & High Water:Grain Ratio
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2010, 09:53:59 AM »
Denny - What calc do you use when you miss your target temp?

Mainly Promash, but also a couple of spreadsheets that people have written specifically for the process.
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