Author Topic: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)  (Read 5265 times)

Offline mudman

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Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« on: September 25, 2012, 06:46:15 PM »
I decided I wanted to try something more adventurous after doing a couple of extract kits and I came up with this recipe.  I know it is not a traditional doppelbock but I am only 1/4 German so I don't care.  I am only calling it that because it fits right in the style by my calculations and it will be pitched with Celebrator yeast that I am harvesting.  And thoughts on how this will turn out?  I am not too confident yet so I am only brewing a 2.5 gallon batch.  This is also my first lager.

6 lbs  Amber Malt Extract Syrup
.5 lbs Light Dry Malt Extract
.5 lbs Wheat Berries
.5 lbs Wild Rice
1 lbs Honey
2 oz. Hallertau Pellets 45 min.

Let the noob have it. :D


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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 06:53:38 PM »
The wheat berries and the rice will be a problem w/o doing at least a partial mash. They contain starch that needs to be converted to sugars through enzymes in the malt.

I'm 100% German an that is not even considered beer in Germany  ;)

Kai

Offline mudman

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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2012, 07:01:39 PM »
The wheat berries and the rice will be a problem w/o doing at least a partial mash. They contain starch that needs to be converted to sugars through enzymes in the malt.

I'm 100% German an that is not even considered beer in Germany  ;)

Kai
I was planning on cooking the heck out of them and then mashing. 

I could eat kraut and wurst with it to make up for the blasphemy.

Mike

Offline erockrph

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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2012, 07:17:12 PM »
Sounds pretty interesting. Since you're going to need to do a partial mash to convert the starches in the wild rice and wheat berries, you might as well mash as much Munich/Vienna as you can with it. I'm thinking maybe something like 1 lb of Pilsner (to convert the rice/wheat), 1lb of CaraMunich, then as much Munich/Vienna as you can fit in your mash.

If you steep/mash CaraMunich you can also go with Munich LME instead of amber and probably get closer to a dopplebock in the end.
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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2012, 07:20:13 PM »
The wheat berries and the rice will be a problem w/o doing at least a partial mash. They contain starch that needs to be converted to sugars through enzymes in the malt.

I'm 100% German an that is not even considered beer in Germany  ;)

Kai
I was planning on cooking the heck out of them and then mashing. 

I could eat kraut and wurst with it to make up for the blasphemy.
You need something with enzymes to do the mashing, the extract doesn't have it.

There is a lot more to making a good lager than an ingredients list. Yeast selection, pitch rate, temperature and temperature control for the fermentation and lagering.

Some guy named Kai has an excellet site that you should spend time reading. It has been a great resource for me.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Braukaiser.com
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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2012, 07:22:11 PM »
This became my benchmark for a good Doppelbock when I tasted it at the NHC 2010. It was that good.
Compare and contrast...
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Imperator

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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2012, 07:39:17 PM »
Thanks for the support guys. I also hope that my comment about beer in Germany is seen with tongue in cheek.

mudman, I think you'll make beer and depending on how its fermented it may actually turn out good, but if you want to make something close to a Doppebock I think you'll have to work will all-malt. A good Munich malt extract with some crystal and maybe a little roast will work well. And don't forget to age the beer. That's when those desirable flavors are created.

Kai

Offline mudman

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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 08:13:41 PM »
Thanks for the links and info guys.  And I agree with you Kai that this will not be much like a real doppelbock, but I am in this one for the adventure and learning experience.  I seem to have a great place in my basement shop for fermenting.  So far I have been able to control my fermentation temps in there very well.
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Offline jlo

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Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 08:21:07 PM »
If you substitute the amber for Munich you would get closer.  If you want extreme blasphemy you could put your wheat berries and wild rice in after cooking in a pot of 150F water with some enzymes for conversion.

Otherwise just go for it and see what happens.

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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 05:32:54 AM »
If you substitute the amber for Munich you would get closer.  If you want extreme blasphemy you could put your wheat berries and wild rice in after cooking in a pot of 150F water with some enzymes for conversion.

Otherwise just go for it and see what happens.

I agree. Go for it mudman. You will make beer, and then you can compare it with a doppelbock that you like. All part of the learning process.

If you are serious about lagers, spend time reading Kai's site. There is still stuff I must read there. Always more to learn.
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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 07:47:21 AM »
Can you harvest yeast from Celebrator?

Do they bottle with the fermentation strain?

Somewhere out there in the ether I had found a site that purported to list out which beers did and did not.  This was helpful in stopping me from trying to culture Franziskaner yeast.
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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 08:22:07 AM »
Can you harvest yeast from Celebrator?

Do they bottle with the fermentation strain?

Somewhere out there in the ether I had found a site that purported to list out which beers did and did not.  This was helpful in stopping me from trying to culture Franziskaner yeast.

Or you can buy WLP-833, which is said to be the Ayinger strain.
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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 08:32:51 AM »
Can you harvest yeast from Celebrator?

Do they bottle with the fermentation strain?

Somewhere out there in the ether I had found a site that purported to list out which beers did and did not.  This was helpful in stopping me from trying to culture Franziskaner yeast.

Or you can buy WLP-833, which is said to be the Ayinger strain.

Yes, but the OP said he was harvesting it.
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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 08:37:10 AM »
Can you harvest yeast from Celebrator?

Do they bottle with the fermentation strain?

Somewhere out there in the ether I had found a site that purported to list out which beers did and did not.  This was helpful in stopping me from trying to culture Franziskaner yeast.

Or you can buy WLP-833, which is said to be the Ayinger strain.

Yes, but the OP said he was harvesting it.

I'd be surprised it celebrator wasn't filtered.  I don't recall ever seeing any sediment in it.
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Re: Opinions on doppelbock (sort of)
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 08:46:26 AM »
Can you harvest yeast from Celebrator?

Do they bottle with the fermentation strain?

Somewhere out there in the ether I had found a site that purported to list out which beers did and did not.  This was helpful in stopping me from trying to culture Franziskaner yeast.

Or you can buy WLP-833, which is said to be the Ayinger strain.

Yes, but the OP said he was harvesting it.

OK.
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