Author Topic: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA  (Read 34356 times)

Offline hoser

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2012, 08:41:13 PM »
Albeit not likely .. I would like Mitch's feedback on hops in Arrogant Bastard. The CYBI and other "standard" recipes call for Chinook. The Craft of Stone Brewing, absent of A.B, references a lot of non-Chinook hops for the hoppy beers.

Crossing the fingers and holding my breath ...

GOOD LUCK, You won't get any info on AB.  That is classified/off limits.  You might as well start breathing.  They have gradually changed their hops over the years.  Early on they used Chinook a lot, especially as a bittering hop.  The only thing that is certain is that from everything they have said is that AB has not changed over the years.  If you look at their early recipes to now their bittering hops have gradually changed over time, but generally the flavor hops remain the same...

Offline denny

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2012, 09:20:49 AM »
Mitch must be busy eh? Hope he gets a chance to answer some good questions here.

From the original post..."Answers will be posted on Nov. 12."
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Offline mpietropaoli

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2012, 05:36:13 PM »
Some of the best IPA's I've had are not overly bitter (at least to my palette).  Conversely, some of the WORST ones I've had ARE overly bitter!  To me, the real genius of an IPA lies in linking up a substantial, complex (yet background) malt profile with a layered, pleasant, and aggressive hop profile.  Just an example, and I know it is marketed as an APA, but Dale's is a great example of this.  If googled, you can find dozens of amateur video reviews of this beer, relishing its 'hoppiness'.  While it is 'hoppy', I think the reason it sells so well, drinks so well, and INTRODUCES so many people to the category so well, is that its malt background balances out a great hop bouquet.   

Are there any key processes or malts that brewers (particularly on a homebrew scale) could/should play with to get these types of results?  Melanoidin?  Biscuit?  Base of Marris Otter?

Great job on the "Enjoy By" IPA btw!

Cheers-
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:29:53 PM by mpietropaoli »
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Offline philm63

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2012, 05:46:21 PM »
I just brewed a Black Double IPA using Carafa III at 5.4% of grist; a base of Maris Otter, some crystal and what-not, and what I deemed to be a ridiculous hop schedule (over half a pound spread out over 5 minute intervals for a 60-minute boil). It'll get 2 dry-hop charges over a 10-day period as well.

Thinking that this should first be a double IPA, then it should be black, I tried to keep the dark malt at a level where it would just make the beer dark, but not too "roasty" so as not to compete with the hops.

When I was done collecting the wort, it was quite dark and it smelled a bit more roasty than I thought it would, but not too roasty (not quite stout-like), in my opinion.

With enough hops and what I hope turns out to be a balanced malt background and considering the dark malt was only 5.4% of grist; will the slight roasty character I smell now mellow in the fermenter or otherwise fall to the background where it should be?
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Offline beersk

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2012, 07:59:46 PM »
Mitch must be busy eh? Hope he gets a chance to answer some good questions here.

From the original post..."Answers will be posted on Nov. 12."
Wow, I TOTALLY missed that part. Never was the best at reading comprehension...
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Offline hoser

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2012, 01:17:59 PM »
Mitch,

First off, thank you for a very fun and insightful read!  Love the book!  Second, thanks for making bad ass hoppy beers!  Can't wait until they hit the Nebraska market someday, but Iowa and Missouri will do for now ;D.

A couple of questions:

1.  Can you elaborate on the hop additions used in the recipe section of the book?  I know they are calculated by weight, so when you say for example in the Ruination recipe "62.5% Columbus at the start of the boil, then add 37.5% Centennial during the whirlpool,"  that should be 62.5% of the hop mass is Columbus at 90 minutes and then the remainder of the mass is centennial at flameout/WP.  Is this something where we just need to put it into our software of choice and fudge around with the numbers?  This doesn't seem to take into account changes is AA% on a yearly basis.  I understand the issues with utilization, you mention, based on equipment.  Is there a way you can take us back to middle school and do an example/demonstration of the hop calculations for a recipe based on the parameters in the book? :P

2.  Can you take us through the process of designing/building a malt/grist bill and hop selection and additions for your 2 new latest hoppy beer releases (or any beer for that matter): Ruination 10th Anniversary and "Enjoy By?"  How do these beers differ from the original Ruination or the regular IPA in Stone's portfolio?  Did you incorporate some of the info you learned while researching IPAs into these 2 newest releases?  What are you looking for in the finished product in beers like this?

Thanks again and cheers!
Brian Hoesing

Offline kramerog

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2012, 02:05:53 PM »
The next guest in the Ask the Experts series will be Mitch Steele, author of the new book "IPA: Brewing Techniques, Recipes and the Evolution of India Pale Ale".  Mitch will be taking questions about IPA (believe it or not!) the week of Oct. 22-29.  Answers will be posted on Nov. 12. 


I'm waiting with bated breath!
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Offline denny

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »
I've beenso busy I missed what day it was!  I'll check into what's up.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2012, 02:21:56 PM »
I've beenso busy I missed what day it was!  I'll check into what's up.
Thanks
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Offline kswitzer

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2012, 03:10:47 PM »
I've beenso busy I missed what day it was!  I'll check into what's up.
Thanks

Hi All,

Thanks for your patience!  Mitch will be posting his answers tomorrow morning (Wednesday) first thing (Pacific)- sorry for the delay.  You all had some great questions and I know he's looking forward to answering them for you.

Cheers~

KRISTI SWITZER
Publisher, Brewers Publications
PO Box 2072 | Georgetown, TX 78627
(512) 863-5227 | Kristi@BrewersAssociation.org  | Twitter:  @beerbooks
New Release:  IPA: Brewing Techniques, Recipes and the Evolution of India Pale Ale by Mitch Steele
Coming in December: For the Love of Hops: The Practical Guide to Aroma, Bitterness and the Culture of Hops by Stan Hieronymus

Offline beersk

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2012, 07:33:30 AM »
Great, thanks for letting us know, Kristi.
Watch out for those Cross Dressing Amateurs!

Offline mmitchem

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2012, 07:40:34 AM »
Hi Mitch -

Just wanted to get your take on whirlpool hopping. Do you have a preferred whirlpool schedule? Does it depend on what you are brewing? Is there a point where you might as well just make a late boil addition?Thanks in advance!
Michael P Mitchem
Beer and Ale Research Foundation (B.A.R.F.)
AHA Member since 2011

Offline mitchsteele

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2012, 12:55:33 PM »
The next guest in the Ask the Experts series will be Mitch Steele, author of the new book "IPA: Brewing Techniques, Recipes and the Evolution of India Pale Ale".  Mitch will be taking questions about IPA (believe it or not!) the week of Oct. 22-29.  Answers will be posted on Nov. 12.  Unlike previous Ask the Experts sessions, this one will be conducted here on the forum and open to everyone, not just AHA members.  Please do not post questions before Oct. 22.  I wanted to give everyone a heads up to start thinking about what you might like to ask.  I'll post more as we get closer to 10/22 to remind everyone and let you know when the question period is open.  Please keep questions related to IPA, but any aspect of IPA or anything you read in the book is fair game.



This looks like it will be a really interesting and informative experience, so start thinking up those questions!

Hey everyone, sorry about the miscommunication on my part about getting these answers posted by the deadline. I've answered almost all the questions, posts should come up quickly today. Thanks everyone for the great questions.  -Mitch

Offline mitchsteele

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2012, 12:57:20 PM »
I have been homebrewing for 10+ years - bottling & kegging.  I never have gotten good results from dry hopping.  Currently, I put whole leaf hops in a hop bag, drop in keg & rack on top.  I then remove after 5-10 days & add another charge the same way (hop bag) if called for.

However, every time I've gotten just vegetal, grassy flavors regardless of the varietal used.  Because of this, I have cut out dry hopping in all my beers 100% & just add those same hops at flameout which provides exactly what I am looking for.

Do you have any clue what could be cause the unpleasant flavors in dry hopping using the procedures above?  Is late hopping just as effective & dry hopping unnecessary?

Thanks,
Jonathan
Hey Jonathan:
A few things to look at here. First, what temperature is your beer at the time you dry-hop it? I’m finding that 60-65 °F or so seems to work really well for us. Too hot, you might extract flavors you don’t want, too cold, you won’t extract enough of the really good oils, and as someone mentions further in the questions-you could get a lot of grassy flavors.
Second, and this is critical-what is the quality of the whole hops you are using? Nothing against homebrew shops, but I always struggled finding really good quality, fresh, non-oxidized whole hops when I was homebrewing. I suggest you try your dry-hopping with an unopened package of pellets and see how it compares.
Finally, how many hops are you adding? Try 0.5 oz/gallon and see what happens.
I do think you get different character with dry hopping as opposed to adding hops to hot wort in the brewhouse. However, you can get really great hop flavor from late additions in the brewhouse, and if you prefer that, then that’s fine!

Cheers, Mitch

Offline mitchsteele

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Re: Ask the Experts: Mitch Steele on IPA
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2012, 12:58:36 PM »
I have been homebrewing for 10+ years - bottling & kegging.  I never have gotten good results from dry hopping.  Currently, I put whole leaf hops in a hop bag, drop in keg & rack on top.  I then remove after 5-10 days & add another charge the same way (hop bag) if called for.

However, every time I've gotten just vegetal, grassy flavors regardless of the varietal used.  Because of this, I have cut out dry hopping in all my beers 100% & just add those same hops at flameout which provides exactly what I am looking for.

Do you have any clue what could be cause the unpleasant flavors in dry hopping using the procedures above?  Is late hopping just as effective & dry hopping unnecessary?

I have been homebrewing for just over 12 years and finally, finally found a solution for great hop flavor and aroma. I should state this works great FOR ME. I use a water filter housing as a torpedo (Sierra Nevada) and recirculate the freshly kegged wort for 2 days at cellar temp (60-65 F). I use 2 to 6 ounces of hops in a bag. The flavor and aroma does start to diminish after 2 to 3 weeks.

So, I would like to hear what Mitch would have to say concerning extending/preserving hop characteristics  in packaging. My process is pretty tight. I don't filter and would like to know how much hop character is removed by the residual yeast flocculating/settling in the keg?

I have thought about re-torpedoing, but have been too lazy to try that yet.

The most important thing to preserve hop character in packaged beer is to minimize oxygen pick up so that the beer doesn’t stale. As beer stales, hop character is the first thing to go. I wouldn’t worry much about yeast from bottle condition absorbing the oils. Yes, to some extent, it happens, but I’ve never really worried about it (unless you have a LOT of yeast in your beer). And you can always add more hops to compensate!
Another thing that we’re finding that works really well, yet is completely unsubstantiated-just a gut feel at this point, is using a lot of varieties (3-4 different varieties  instead of 1-2) as late hop additions. At this point, we’ve been discussing whether varietal differences play a role in hop flavor retention as beer ages, and are trying to develop an experiment to see if there is something to it. And finally, minimize crystal malt, because as it oxidizes, its flavor turns into pretty strong dried fruit (raisins and prunes), which does not help with hop flavor perception.
-Mitch