[gmac]

I want to try some lagers.  I've mentioned before that I don't really do lagers and that they intimidate me but I'd like to give some a try.  I'm thinking a bock, probably a traditional bock to start with.  I'm still undecided if I want to try a decoction or not, probably a hochkurz double decoction as outlined in Kai's website if I do.
Yeast is likely going to be WLP833 unless someone tells me not to.  Base malt is likely going to be mostly pilsner but I'm unsure how much Munich and/or Vienna to use.  I have Brewing Classic Styles but I wanted other opinions. 
My batch size is going to be 10 gals so I know I need a big starter for that but I'll be sure to check with Mr Malty on that. 
I checked the recipe wiki but there weren't many all-grain bock recipes under traditional bock.  I guess the thing that has me unclear right now is the percentage of pils and Munich.  I've found recipes on line that are predominantly pils while the one on line is predominantly Munich.

Thanks

[tygo]

I've only done one bock and I used 85% vienna and 15% munich and I fermented it with 833.  I really liked the results.  When I eventually get around to brewing another one I'll probably do it pretty much the same way.

[majorvices]

some of my best bock recipes use a blend of Munich I and Munich II for the majority of the grist (if not the entirety). I usually add at least 10-20% pils for the enzymes. I also like a touch of cara munich as well.

[gmac]

some of my best bock recipes use a blend of Munich I and Munich II for the majority of the grist (if not the entirety). I usually add at least 10-20% pils for the enzymes. I also like a touch of cara munich as well.

As a percentage, how much is a touch?  I thought you normally left crystal types out of lagers.

[blatz]

some of my best bock recipes use a blend of Munich I and Munich II for the majority of the grist (if not the entirety). I usually add at least 10-20% pils for the enzymes. I also like a touch of cara munich as well.

As a percentage, how much is a touch?  I thought you normally left crystal types out of lagers.

Yeah, you do according to purism,  but then most of the amber and dark lager NHC winners seem to have some small amount of them so go figure. 

I stick with 3% or less and it's no intrusive.

[majorvices]

It's definitely something fun to play around with. I toyed with bock recipes for years and I really enjoyed my 100% Munich bocks (well, 85-90% and a bit of pils to help out with conversion) but my favorite recipes had a touch of caramunich, and as Blatz suggests, under 5%. I've also been known to darken it up some with some carafa special and even dark wheat malt - but I am not a puritan. Where's the fun in that?

[jeffy]

The bocks I have made recently have done well in competitions.  The recipe came via Dan Gordon of Gordon Biersch, as follows:
54% German Pils malt
40% German Light Munich
5% CaraMunich I
1% Carafa I
0.1% Black Malt

[kylekohlmorgen]

some of my best bock recipes use a blend of Munich I and Munich II for the majority of the grist (if not the entirety). I usually add at least 10-20% pils for the enzymes. I also like a touch of cara munich as well.

What is the difference between Munich I and Munich II? Is it just length of kilning (color)? I've chewed on both and didn't taste an appreciable difference.

Is the blend just for complexity (i.e. layering crystal malts)?

[blatz]

some of my best bock recipes use a blend of Munich I and Munich II for the majority of the grist (if not the entirety). I usually add at least 10-20% pils for the enzymes. I also like a touch of cara munich as well.

What is the difference between Munich I and Munich II? Is it just length of kilning (color)? I've chewed on both and didn't taste an appreciable difference.

Is the blend just for complexity (i.e. layering crystal malts)?

I agree that chewing on them, its hard to taste much difference - hell, its hard to taste a difference between vienna and Munich I.  Munich II is considerably darker lovibond, so yes, its kilned longer.  Most brands Munich I is between 4-8L while Munich II rangers from 8 to as high as 20 in some cases.  I stick with Best or Weyermann whose Munich malts are on the lower end of the ranges.

IMO, Munich II is richer and tends to lend some more dark fruit malt flavor over the toastier type flavors from Munich I. 

A lot of people make dunkels with 100% Munich II, FWIW.

Blending them, which I do a lot personally, especially in amber lagers, kind of gives you a best of both worlds flavor.