Author Topic: Saison de Noel  (Read 3486 times)

Offline rbowers

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Saison de Noel
« on: October 12, 2012, 12:10:12 PM »
With the holidays around the corner I am planning a saison de noel for my holiday brew this year.  I'm looking to have a pretty high OG ~1.070-1.080.  Ive done a little research on typical recipes and this is what I've come up with thus far:

6gal batch
OG:1.075
IBU:25

12 lb Belgian Pils
4 lb Munich
.25 lb Carafa II
1 lb Caramunich
0.25 lb Special B

1oz Aramis Hops @ 60 (8.1%AA)
.25oz Aramis Hops @ 20 (8.1%AA)
* I was looking for Strisselspalt hops but can't seem to find right now (aramis is apparently similar with higher AA%)

Yeast: Wyeast Farmhouse Ale, Belgian Ardennes, White Labs Saison Blend or other saison yeast

Mash 150F x 75 min

I'm a little up in the air with the yeast selection as I have not brewed this style before.  I enjoyed the Ardennes strain in a belgian IPA but not sure how it would do in this particular brew.  Suggestions?
Primary:
Nothing

Secondary:
Belgian pale

Lagering:
Dortmunder

Conditioning:
RIS
Belgian RIS

On Tap:
Nothing

Bottles
Flanders Red

Offline thebigbaker

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
  • Denver, CO
    • View Profile
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2012, 12:23:32 PM »
I made my first Saisons this summer and used Wyeast 3711 French Saison and really liked it.  Haven't used any other Saison style yeasts, so I have no comparison, but I really liked 3711.
Jeremy Baker

"An escalator can never break: it can only become stairs. You should never see an Escalator Temporarily Out Of Order sign, just Escalator Temporarily Stairs. Sorry for the convenience." - Mitch Hedberg

Offline bigchicken

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • Lincoln, NE
    • View Profile
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2012, 07:00:22 AM »
Northern Brewer has Strisselspalt in stock.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/brewing-ingredients/hops/pellet-hops/french-strisselspalt-pellets-1-oz.html
I've not brewed with Aramis, but would think that it has to be quite different with an AA% more than twice as high. When I have used Strisselspalt I found the flavor to be extremely delicate. If the Aramis can keep that quality, I'd say go for it. Makes me want to combine the 2 in a French IPA.
TJ Cook
Proud paying member of the AHA since 2013.

On Deck: Apple Wine
Fermenting: Soon, very soon.
In bottles: El Chupacabra Hybrid Wheat, Northern Brewer Munich Helles, Snow Eater Winter Warmer 2012

Offline mpietropaoli

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 06:41:38 PM »
Whatever you do , do NOT use the Dupont yeast (WLP 565, not sure of the WY equivalent), unless you want to repitch US-05 or champagne yeast when it stalls on you. 

I have had fantastic results when using "saison II" or WL 566.  Not sure if the WY strain above is the equivalent or not, but it is a great attenuator and gives excellent saison characteristics without corainder or other adjunct additions. 

With that much munich, you might consider mashing even lower.  Jamil suggests 148 to get it as dry as possible (to his point, I have had many saisons that are simply not dry enough).  75 min mash is a good idea as you state. 

Jamil also says it is a good idea to pitch good, healthy, viable yeast, but do not overpitch (he suggests making the starter the morning of your brew day), so you can get some growth. 

Good luck!  Hops, etc. look great!
Primary: Common Cider; Xmas FauxCAP
Kegged: Pliny Clone; Rodney's Weizenbock; RIS
Bottled: Putain Biere de Garde; 51 RIS; Glutang Clan Roggenbier
Cellaring: Biere de Mars; Flanders
Planned: Schwarz

Offline snowtiger87

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 405
    • View Profile
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 11:54:58 AM »
I really like the flavors of the Dupont strain (WLP 565) but I do hate waiting the month or so for it to finish. It usually goes for about 2 weeks, stalls for another 2 weeks, then starts going again. I really like the finishing power of Wyeast 3711 (French Saison) but I don't think it has the depth of flavors that I like in my Saisons (3711 has more pepper flavor to me than anything else).

So, I came up with the idea to pitch both yeasts at the same time and have been very happy with the results. I get a Saison that finishes in a decent amount of time and has the flavors I want. I harvest the yeast, wash it, and reuse it for several generations so the cost per batch is not that bad.
Brewing since 1989 - BJCP National Rank

Fermenting: McChouffe clone, Samiclaus clone
Conditioning: Belgian Tripel, Barrel Aged Baltic Porter - in sherry barrel, Belgain Easter Ale
On tap: CAP, Dortmunder Export, IIPA, Dubbel Chocolate Stout, Wee Heavy, Whiskey barrel aged Wee Heavy, Baltic Porter
Newly Bottled:

Offline mpietropaoli

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Saison de Noel
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 06:30:56 PM »
U don't like wlp 566?
Primary: Common Cider; Xmas FauxCAP
Kegged: Pliny Clone; Rodney's Weizenbock; RIS
Bottled: Putain Biere de Garde; 51 RIS; Glutang Clan Roggenbier
Cellaring: Biere de Mars; Flanders
Planned: Schwarz

Offline goschman

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 730
    • View Profile
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 03:06:58 PM »
Any update on when you will or if you have brewed this? I am interested in doing something similar for my next batch. I have never done a saison of any type so I would like to get your impressions.

Offline snowtiger87

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 405
    • View Profile
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2012, 02:27:42 PM »
Quote
U don't like wlp 566?

Not as much as "my" blend. I just aquired some ECY Saison Brassarie blend I am planning to use on my Saison d'Hiver (thanks Drew). I am interested to see how that one turns out.
Brewing since 1989 - BJCP National Rank

Fermenting: McChouffe clone, Samiclaus clone
Conditioning: Belgian Tripel, Barrel Aged Baltic Porter - in sherry barrel, Belgain Easter Ale
On tap: CAP, Dortmunder Export, IIPA, Dubbel Chocolate Stout, Wee Heavy, Whiskey barrel aged Wee Heavy, Baltic Porter
Newly Bottled:

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • Brewmaster General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Pasadena, CA
    • View Profile
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2012, 05:20:13 PM »
U don't like wlp 566?

I'll chime in here.. i'm not a fan of 566 at all.
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline mpietropaoli

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
    • View Profile
Saison de Noel
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 05:22:41 AM »
U don't like wlp 566?

I'll chime in here.. i'm not a fan of 566 at all.

Because?  I've only ever used that and DuPont, the latter of which may have good flavors, but process-wise it was a Disaster for me.
Primary: Common Cider; Xmas FauxCAP
Kegged: Pliny Clone; Rodney's Weizenbock; RIS
Bottled: Putain Biere de Garde; 51 RIS; Glutang Clan Roggenbier
Cellaring: Biere de Mars; Flanders
Planned: Schwarz

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • Brewmaster General
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
  • Pasadena, CA
    • View Profile
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 08:17:03 AM »
Because?  I've only ever used that and DuPont, the latter of which may have good flavors, but process-wise it was a Disaster for me.

Not a fan of the flavor mostly.

Of course, I've rarely had problems with 565 once I learned how to abuse the strain the way it likes. :)
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8755
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Saison de Noel
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 09:40:10 AM »
I find that 566 doesn't produce as much of the spicy esters that 565 does. I much prefer 565 over 566, but as Drew indicated, one must keep the fermentation on the warm side to help it finish properly. If you pitch an adequate, yet healthy quantity of yeast, and maintain the fermentation at 72-75F (some folks like it to ferment this yeast in the 80's), the beer should ferment out.
Ron Price