[beersk]

WOW, Freshops is expensive compared to Hops Direct.  I think I'll wait for the pellets and pick up some Simcoe, Citra, and Amarillo.

Dave

just a heads up, but, you aren't going to be able to get Simcoe pellets from hopsdirect. $1.85 p/o of simcoe is pretty much going rate.

Which freakin' sucks...why don't they just release it already and make more of it! It's a hop variety I want to put in all of my hoppy beers.

[blatz]

WOW, Freshops is expensive compared to Hops Direct.  I think I'll wait for the pellets and pick up some Simcoe, Citra, and Amarillo.

Dave

just a heads up, but, you aren't going to be able to get Simcoe pellets from hopsdirect. $1.85 p/o of simcoe is pretty much going rate.

Which freakin' sucks...why don't they just release it already and make more of it! It's a hop variety I want to put in all of my hoppy beers.

I hear ya, but its similar to drug patenting - if the original breeder/developer had no prospect of excess profits either via exclusivity or franchising, then there would be little incentive to develop new varietals. 

[hopfenundmalz]

Simcoe was only grown on 3 farms in 2011. Peterbaugh (hopsdirect) was not one of those 3.

The acres have gone up in 2012. Don't know if it is still the same 3 farms or more.
From the USDA, simcoe acres.
2011=495
2012=922

Those would be first year plants in the increased acreage, but they can get a good yield the first year in the Yakima Valley, 50 to 80% of the mature plant depending on the variety and year (so they say).

[blatz]

some good, related info on this thread: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=5251.0

don't touch that dial, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[davidgzach]

WOW, Freshops is expensive compared to Hops Direct.  I think I'll wait for the pellets and pick up some Simcoe, Citra, and Amarillo.

Dave

just a heads up, but, you aren't going to be able to get Simcoe pellets from hopsdirect. $1.85 p/o of simcoe is pretty much going rate.

Good to know, thanks.

[nateo]

I hear ya, but its similar to drug patenting - if the original breeder/developer had no prospect of excess profits either via exclusivity or franchising, then there would be little incentive to develop new varietals.

Well, Chinook, Cascade, Liberty, Mt. Hood, etc. were all developed in public/private partnerships by people who liked hops (OSU researchers) for hop farmers and people who use hops (B/M/C). Sometimes people just create to make the world a better place. New hops are good for everyone involved in hops, and rising tides lift all boats. But, if you want to make a bunch of cash in a hurry, patents are the way to go.

Luckily for everyone, Jonas Salk lived in a time before big pharma.   

[hopfenundmalz]

I hear ya, but its similar to drug patenting - if the original breeder/developer had no prospect of excess profits either via exclusivity or franchising, then there would be little incentive to develop new varietals.

Well, Chinook, Cascade, Liberty, Mt. Hood, etc. were all developed in public/private partnerships by people who liked hops (OSU researchers) for hop farmers and people who use hops (B/M/C). Sometimes people just create to make the world a better place. New hops are good for everyone involved in hops, and rising tides lift all boats. But, if you want to make a bunch of cash in a hurry, patents are the way to go.

Luckily for everyone, Jonas Salk lived in a time before big pharma.

The BMC type breweries funded that work. They wanted high alpha hops so they could use less for bittering. The Hallertau derivatives were developed as an alternative to imported hops. Both were many saving strategies.

[nateo]

The BMC type breweries funded that work. They wanted high alpha hops so they could use less for bittering. The Hallertau derivatives were developed as an alternative to imported hops. Both were many saving strategies.

It wasn't just BMC funding that research. OSU is a public institution. They receive government funding. We all paid for those hops to be developed. BMC paid more than most of us, but they benefited more than most of us. The hops farmers wanted more disease-resistant hops, too.

My problem with patented hops is the person who patents the hops didn't develop that variety all by themself. Just look at the Tomahawk/Zeus. Zimmerman quit the USDA and began private hop breeding, using unreleased germplasms he took from the USDA for his personal profit. We don't really have idea what the lineage of Simcoe or the other patented hops are, or if they're based on stolen publicly-funded germplasms or not.

[hopfenundmalz]

The BMC type breweries funded that work. They wanted high alpha hops so they could use less for bittering. The Hallertau derivatives were developed as an alternative to imported hops. Both were many saving strategies.

It wasn't just BMC funding that research. OSU is a public institution. They receive government funding. We all paid for those hops to be developed. BMC paid more than most of us, but they benefited more than most of us. The hops farmers wanted more disease-resistant hops, too.

My problem with patented hops is the person who patents the hops didn't develop that variety all by themself. Just look at the Tomahawk/Zeus. Zimmerman quit the USDA and began private hop breeding, using unreleased germplasms he took from the USDA for his personal profit. We don't really have idea what the lineage of Simcoe or the other patented hops are, or if they're based on stolen publicly-funded germplasms or not.

I agree that OSU has many revenue streams as a public institution. Ask why they aren't releasing new hop varieties today? If you are familiar with Indiehops, you know that they were set up to fund new hop breeding at OSU and get the program going agian.

The CTZ thing is interesting if you do some deep dives into it on the web.

[beersk]

Who knew hops were so controversial...

[nateo]

Missouri has a research institute devoted to developing new viticulture techniques and breeding programs for midwest-friendly grape varieties. It's funded through a ~$0.35/barrel excise tax on all wine produced in the state. All wineries in MO are mandatory members of this group, and they all benefit from the fruits of the labor.

With ~200m barrels produced per year, even a $0.05 increase in the beer excise tax would raise $10m/year for beer research. I'm not sure why brewers don't lobby for something like this when they're all desperate to get the latest/greatest hop varieties, and paying through the nose to get them when they can. Just check out the probrewer forums and search for "Simcoe."

[hopfenundmalz]

There is some good logic to that.

Stan Heironymus said that the German Government has funding to develope new hops at the Hull Research Institute. High Alpha and Aroma hops. They see what is happening in the US and see how the hop farmers can benefit.

[nateo]

I had that figure wrong, it's $0.12/gallon on consumer wine sales, not excise. It funds the Wine and Grape Board, which underwrites the Institute for Continental Climate Viticulture and Enology, which is a branch of Mizzou college of agriculture.

Pre-prohibition Missouri was the biggest wine producer in the country, and they're trying really hard to get there again.

[erockrph]

Stan Heironymus said that the German Government has funding to develope new hops at the Hull Research Institute. High Alpha and Aroma hops. They see what is happening in the US and see how the hop farmers can benefit.

They're starting to trickle in over here in the US as well. Just got some Polaris (21.3% AA!!!) in today from Nikobrew. Very curious to try these puppies out.

[hopfenundmalz]

Stan Heironymus said that the German Government has funding to develope new hops at the Hull Research Institute. High Alpha and Aroma hops. They see what is happening in the US and see how the hop farmers can benefit.

They're starting to trickle in over here in the US as well. Just got some Polaris (21.3% AA!!!) in today from Nikobrew. Very curious to try these puppies out.

That may have been the one he had the picture of, that were about 30 ft. high and looked like trees, with about 2800 lbs per acre IIRC. Listen to his talk from the NHC if you are a memeber.