Author Topic: HERMS vs RIMS  (Read 13433 times)

Offline weithman5

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2012, 03:00:34 PM »


 I strongly recommend including a PID to control the RIMS heating element.

one of the nice things about my small system is the 1500 watt element is just enough to bring to a boil.  i have not had to add any pwm or pid. though if i do turn it into a rims i would add a pid. if i decide to go to 2kw element i would add a pwm i think.
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Offline dcbc

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2012, 09:17:06 AM »

dcbc - just a heads up, I didn't do the wiring - the control panels can be purchased assembled.  I did alter the kettles and build the brewstand, etc. however. 

edit - forgot the Blichmann ToP is for propane IIRC.   Nonetheless you can make a simple control panel for $5-600 easily.

A couple of years ago, I had natural gas run to the garage.  I don't miss filling propane tanks a bit.  I haven't noticed any difference in my NG bill as a result of my brewing.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2012, 10:17:00 AM »
one of the nice things about my small system is the 1500 watt element is just enough to bring to a boil.  i have not had to add any pwm or pid. though if i do turn it into a rims i would add a pid. if i decide to go to 2kw element i would add a pwm i think.

Good point.  With my 5500 watt element in 6.5 gallons of wort, it seems that I could almost get the entire batch to jump out of the pot if I didn't have a pulse-width modulator.     
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Offline skepace

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2012, 02:52:07 PM »

Oh, and since this is a HERMS vs RIMS discussion, I can recommend the RIMS tube from Brewers Hardware.  It has been worth every penny.  I strongly recommend including a PID to control the RIMS heating element.  You will overheat your wort if you don't include that control.  That is another reason I have a problem with a HERMS.  If the water in the exchanger is too hot, you could also overheat the wort and denature the enzymes prematurely.  I can tell you that starchy wort does not make good beer.   

PID???  Guess I should start looking into supplies for a RIMS system.  Seems to be more popular.

Offline mmitchem

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2012, 03:07:38 PM »
Don't let these RIMS and HERMS components scare you. They are all pretty easy to get a grasp on and really only take a little bit of time to really understand.
I built the Backwoods Brewery, which was one of the Pimp My System rigs a few months back, after about 2 months of research. If you have any questions regarding setup or anything like that, send me a message and I would be glad to give you a 'checklist' of things.
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Offline skepace

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2012, 03:17:56 PM »
Don't let these RIMS and HERMS components scare you. They are all pretty easy to get a grasp on and really only take a little bit of time to really understand.
I built the Backwoods Brewery, which was one of the Pimp My System rigs a few months back, after about 2 months of research. If you have any questions regarding setup or anything like that, send me a message and I would be glad to give you a 'checklist' of things.

Thanks!

Offline Pawtucket Patriot

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2012, 06:44:47 AM »
Don't let these RIMS and HERMS components scare you. They are all pretty easy to get a grasp on and really only take a little bit of time to really understand.
I built the Backwoods Brewery, which was one of the Pimp My System rigs a few months back, after about 2 months of research. If you have any questions regarding setup or anything like that, send me a message and I would be glad to give you a 'checklist' of things.

Hey Michael,

Do you have a link to your Pimp My System article?  I just upgraded to a single-tier stand for which I'll eventually incorporate RIMS system (mostly likely next spring/summer).  I, too, would be interested in your plans, checklist, etc.

Cheers!
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Offline mmitchem

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2012, 06:52:59 AM »
Don't let these RIMS and HERMS components scare you. They are all pretty easy to get a grasp on and really only take a little bit of time to really understand.
I built the Backwoods Brewery, which was one of the Pimp My System rigs a few months back, after about 2 months of research. If you have any questions regarding setup or anything like that, send me a message and I would be glad to give you a 'checklist' of things.

Here you go. This is the brief overview of the subsystems and some of the stuff that went into it. Send me a message for more info and part specifics. It is a lot to cover here.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/community/pimp-my-system/show?title=pimp-my-system-backwoods-brewery
Michael P Mitchem
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Offline mmitchem

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2012, 07:03:50 AM »
edit - forgot the Blichmann ToP is for propane IIRC.   Nonetheless you can make a simple control panel for $5-600 easily.

Less in fact. I think after purchasing the 2 PID's, timer, (2) 3-way switches, (2) 2-way, 2 LED's, a 12x12x6 panel box, the wire, distribution blocks and a 110-24v transformer - I believe the total bill was in the area of $275-$300.
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Online mtnrockhopper

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2012, 02:14:40 PM »
I don't know where your from but Southern California Edison has a 5 tier cost program. The lowest possible price for the first 843kWh is "tier 1" $.23 per kWh......  the next 102 kWh is $.24.....the next 176 kWh is $.32...the next is $.36 ...and the rest is $.39 per kWh....

Now, everyone I know ends up in the last usage tier of $.39 per kWh..... So calculate at $.39

12 kWh x $.39 = $4.68.....A 5 gallon propane tank $10 to fill......Gas cost us $1.75 to $1.99 per gallon out here to refill. A tank lasts 2 batches with some left over.

Electricity isn't as cheap as you think it is.

Well, that is expensive. My electricity is way less and propane is about double your cost. We pay $18-$23 per fillup.  Still, even at your high electric / low propane costs, electricity and propane are about even.
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Offline Pi

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2012, 09:04:22 AM »
I built a RIMS and use propane for HLT and BK; electric for pimps PID and heat element. i looked at The Electric Brewery site and was impressed. My only concern with going all-electric is this: I tend to brew on cold, windy/rainy days. our power goes out pretty easily around here so if the lights go out i'm screwed. Whereas gas at least can get me through the process.
So how much of a cost difference are we talking (percentage-wise)? If it is significant, i could see upgrading and getting a generator for backup. And how long would it take to re coupe the $$s just needed for the upfit? The generator i could justify because that can be used for other things like chest freezer (fermentation) and simple house power needs.
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Offline skepace

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2012, 09:19:15 AM »
Well as I told a friend of mine, if the power goes out I sure as hell better stop brewing or my wife would have my A$$.  Kids and home are the priority.

Now, with that said.  I like the propane but being able to brew inside is appearing really nice. 

Still stuck with going with either electric RIMS or electric HERMS.  Need to figure that out so I can finish planning my build.

Offline Pi

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2012, 09:32:35 AM »
Still stuck with going with either electric RIMS or electric HERMS.  Need to figure that out so I can finish planning my build.
RIMS IMO is easier cleanup. I use a shop vac to clean the mash tun and backflush/recirculate everything, including counterflow wort chiller with five star liquid line cleaner followed by a hot rinse. I guess a HERMS wouldnt be much different- back flushing a coil of tubing versus a heating element in a 18"X1.5" copper pipe.
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Offline skepace

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2012, 09:38:25 AM »
I guess the price is about the same for HERMS (coil and valves) vs RIMS (extra heating element and piping). 

What about scorching?  How do I know all of the wort is out of the tube?

Offline dak0415

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Re: HERMS vs RIMS
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2012, 09:54:41 AM »
I guess the price is about the same for HERMS (coil and valves) vs RIMS (extra heating element and piping). 

What about scorching?  How do I know all of the wort is out of the tube?
The trick with RIMS is to fill the plenum from the bottom and mount the element on the bottom, making sure there are no bubbles in the system (air in contact with wet tube = scorch).  As long as the wort is moving, it will not scorch.  I run my RIMS element (4500W@240V) at 120V and set my PID at 75% output so the element will never stay on 100% of the time.  I had a scorching (wort darkening) problem when I used a 1500W@120V element but never since the re-design.
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