Author Topic: dark malts on sparging  (Read 1680 times)

Offline hospter81

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
dark malts on sparging
« on: December 20, 2012, 07:39:45 AM »
Hello, if i want to do a porter style with all dark and crystal grains mashed on the sparging, can i neglect the acidification effect of those malts? if yes, i just take the effect of base malts and apply some phosporic acid to achieve a ph 5.2-5.4 on the mash tun?

do you have a better option?

thanks!

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4519
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 07:57:08 AM »
I cold steep the dark malts. I mash the base and crystal malts together,  just because that's similar to making beers with no roasted malts. Get the pH correct for the mash, and when it is converted and time is up, I transfer the liquid then vorlauf and sparge. Some also add the roast grains to the sparge and go with it.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline kylekohlmorgen

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1163
    • View Profile
    • The South House Pilot Brewery
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 07:59:05 AM »
I cold steep the dark malts. I mash the base and crystal malts together,  just because that's similar to making beers with no roasted malts. Get the pH correct for the mash, and when it is converted and time is up, I transfer the liquid then vorlauf and sparge. Some also add the roast grains to the sparge and go with it.

What kind of flavor difference do you get here? Significantly less acrid/roasty character?

I've been thinking about trying this with an existing recipe, but I want to make sure I account for it in my recipe.
@southhousebrew

Indianapolis, IN

Recipes, Brett/Bacteria Experiments:
http://southhousepilotbrewery.blogspot.com/

Offline hospter81

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • View Profile
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 08:19:44 AM »
definitely...it makes a more refined flavor...less toastes, more chocolate..

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4519
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 09:12:01 AM »
This will minimize the burnt/acrid flavors. You may need more roasted malts as this is a little less efficient on extraction. There is a section on cold steeping. In Brewing Better Beer, and Gordon Strong covers it well.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 11626
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 11:36:18 AM »
George Fix started talking about cold steeping 15 years ago, based on info from Mary Ann Gruber, who was with with Briess at the time.  Here's some info from them from an old HBD...

http://hbd.org/clubs/cascade/public_html/brewing/index.html
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline jeffy

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2436
  • Tampa, Fl
    • View Profile
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 02:48:51 PM »
Hello, if i want to do a porter style with all dark and crystal grains mashed on the sparging, can i neglect the acidification effect of those malts? if yes, i just take the effect of base malts and apply some phosporic acid to achieve a ph 5.2-5.4 on the mash tun?

do you have a better option?

thanks!

This is what I've been doing lately.  Mashing all the diastatic malts, acidifying as you mentioned with lactic acid because my local doesn't carry phosphoric, then after the mash capping with crystal and roast malts, vorlauf and sparge.  It lets you set the pH for the optimal mash time after time.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4519
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 08:07:50 PM »
There was a Zymurgy article by Mary Ann Gruber about this back around 2000 or so. Use the sear h function on the AHA page for Zymurgy to find it. On my phone right now.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline ajk

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
  • Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)
    • View Profile
dark malts on sparging
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 05:39:37 AM »
What kind of flavor difference do you get here? Significantly less acrid/roasty character?

I've been thinking about trying this with an existing recipe, but I want to make sure I account for it in my recipe.

Kyle, I suspect you and I have similar, highly alkaline water profiles.  I too have considered the cold-steeping method, but I think I'd then have to adjust my water to lower the mash pH—I feel like we get that adjustment for free with dark malts.

Still, I'd like to triangle-test two beers made both ways (one pH-adjusted by dark grains in the mash, the other with dark grains cold-steeped or added during the sparge and pH-adjusted by RO dilution or acid additions).

ajk

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4519
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: dark malts on sparging
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 08:01:20 AM »
There was a Zymurgy article by Mary Ann Gruber about this back around 2000 or so. Use the sear h function on the AHA page for Zymurgy to find it. On my phone right now.
The Zymurgy article can be found online now. Jan-Feb 2002 issue.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!