Author Topic: First Sour beer  (Read 2747 times)

Offline brewmasternpb

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First Sour beer
« on: November 13, 2012, 09:40:19 PM »
So... I've done a lot of information gathering, and I think I'm at that point where I just need to brew a sour to put all of that info together.  Before that I'd like to throw out my idea for my first batch to the forum:

Beer- Baltic Porter (Mashed rather high to give the bugs plenty to chew on)

Yeast- Sach strain (Wyeast 1056), made from a good starter

Brett Strain (Brett B or C), add vial when I add the sach strain, because Brett enjoys oxygen too.

Bugs- Bottle Dregs from the most recent Avery Barrel aged beers- Added to Secondary, because Pedio and other bugs do not like O2.

Age- A while (10-12 Months)

It seems like a solid plan... but Maybe there are some holes in it.  My main question... will one bottle suffice for harvesting dregs, or should I use more?

Any help is appreciated.
-Dave
Dave Malone
The Greater Denver Yeast Infection

Offline redbeerman

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 07:41:20 AM »
If you are going to use dregs, I recommend using from multiple bottles or growing it up starting with a very small (8oz.) starter.
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Offline brewmasternpb

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 11:50:03 PM »
Alright, I made a small starter tonight and added the dregs from Odio Equum from Avery.  It was a great beer, so I hope the starter takes...
Dave Malone
The Greater Denver Yeast Infection

Offline redbeerman

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First Sour beer
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 03:03:48 PM »
I recommend you bump the starter up 8 oz at a time.  When you start smelling funk or vinous aroma in the starter, it's time to add more wort.
CH3CH2OH - Without it, life itself would be impossible.

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Jim

Online AmandaK

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 03:33:00 PM »
Let us know if that starter works - I was under the impression that Avery did flash pasteurizing of those barrel aged beers.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 05:44:39 PM »
I've used the dregs of a 750ml and a 330ml bottle together in a five gallon batch and got it up and souring. (It was Petrus aged pale, if you care.) Took a few weeks to see/smell some effects but there's no rush here.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 02:15:35 PM »
Making a little starter (or stepping up) just ensures success in culturing bottle dregs.

If its a rare beer and you've only got one shot at it, its worth making a starter.

If you drink the beer a lot and normally have dregs to pitch, don't worry about it.

I add a few ounces of starter wort to freshly-emptied bottles. Once it starts smelling nice or forms a good pellicle, I'll wait another week or two and top up with another few ounces.

Keep it clean - the wild yeast in bottle dregs are normally weak and slow to start, so its fairly easy for contaminants to take hold if you're not careful.
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 02:20:00 PM »
Making a little starter (or stepping up) just ensures success in culturing bottle dregs.

If its a rare beer and you've only got one shot at it, its worth making a starter.

If you drink the beer a lot and normally have dregs to pitch, don't worry about it.

I add a few ounces of starter wort to freshly-emptied bottles. Once it starts smelling nice or forms a good pellicle, I'll wait another week or two and top up with another few ounces.

Keep it clean - the wild yeast in bottle dregs are normally weak and slow to start, so its fairly easy for contaminants to take hold if you're not careful.

In your experience how clean is clean enough? If I pour the beer in one go and then add the wort and slap an airlock or sanitized foil over the top is that clean enough or should get the rubbing alcahol out and flame the top before opening and after pouring?
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 02:26:46 PM »
Eh - I'd sterilize the mouth of the bottle even if I was only pouring once. The cages are not sanitized, and the outside of the mouth is open to the elements.

I like to wipe down the mouth really well with alcohol, dry, and then flame. If you have any stickiness or a small part of cork left over, it can burn, stink, and make the beer taste like burnt plastic.

(I've done this...)
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Online morticaixavier

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 02:35:13 PM »
Eh - I'd sterilize the mouth of the bottle even if I was only pouring once. The cages are not sanitized, and the outside of the mouth is open to the elements.

I like to wipe down the mouth really well with alcohol, dry, and then flame. If you have any stickiness or a small part of cork left over, it can burn, stink, and make the beer taste like burnt plastic.

(I've done this...)

cool thanks! The bottle shop in my town has a really nice selection of sour, wild, and lambic beers and I think it would be cool to do some bottle dreg projects.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2012, 08:17:48 AM »
I don't sanitize the mouth of the bottle before pouring the beer but I definitely do before pouring out the dregs or adding anything back into the bottle. When I use dregs to culture yeast I flame the mouth and then add wort in the bottle to create the first step of starter. You know the environment in the bottle is clean and that's where the yeast are anyway (I credit TBN for this idea). I never create a starter for sour dregs myself but you could do it in the bottle if you do.
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Offline brewmasternpb

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 10:13:04 PM »
Well...the starter never took.  I did an 8oz starter with the dregs and let it sit for 3 weeks with nary a bubble to be seen... the wort was sweet after those 3 weeks.  Oh well :)
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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 02:14:38 PM »
Well...the starter never took.  I did an 8oz starter with the dregs and let it sit for 3 weeks with nary a bubble to be seen... the wort was sweet after those 3 weeks.  Oh well :)

Dang. Well at least you know your sanitation was up to snuff!

Has anyone had success growing up a culture from the barrel aged sours from Avery?
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: First Sour beer
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 07:06:44 AM »
Well...the starter never took.  I did an 8oz starter with the dregs and let it sit for 3 weeks with nary a bubble to be seen... the wort was sweet after those 3 weeks.  Oh well :)

Dang. Well at least you know your sanitation was up to snuff!

Has anyone had success growing up a culture from the barrel aged sours from Avery?

I've heard they use lots of different (and perhaps commercially unavailable) brett strains, so its definitely worth a shot!

Since they're big beers, you'll probably get just brett (and possibly local flora?) from bottle dregs. Commercial pedio strains can survive at higher alcohol levels, but they can be fussy in subsequent cultures. My next collection of bottle dregs will have a pitch of Wyeast pedio for good measure.
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Recipes, Brett/Bacteria Experiments:
http://southhousepilotbrewery.blogspot.com/