Author Topic: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot  (Read 3751 times)

Offline nateo

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Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« on: November 14, 2012, 12:33:06 PM »
I tried wet-milling some pils malt on my MM-2. I soaked the grain for about 2-3 seconds, then strained it in a colander. I ran it through once at 1mm, and it milled fine, without jamming up or anything. Because I love clutching defeat from the jaws of victory, I tried to run it through again at 0.5mm, and this happened:

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Offline weithman5

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 12:36:25 PM »
nice bread dough or doh 8)
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 12:41:10 PM »
Thanks for the heads up. Definitely won't be doing that anytime soon.  ;D
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Offline euge

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 12:53:07 PM »
Looks suspiciously familiar to my one and only "malt conditioning" attempt. FWIW I get nearly whole husks as it is. Not worth the hassle.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline blatz

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 12:59:13 PM »
Looks suspiciously familiar to my one and only "malt conditioning" attempt. FWIW I get nearly whole husks as it is. Not worth the hassle.

yeah - I forgot how I did that for a while - monumental waste of time.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2012, 01:01:53 PM »
I usually condition my malt and double-mill it, but I've never had it jam up so horrendously before.
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 02:53:00 PM »
I had that happen once.  I got overly enthusiastic with the spray bottle.  Lucky for me that I got the whole batch milled before it completely seized up.  It did allow me to learn exactly how to disassemble and reassemble my mill so something good came out of it.

I still condition my grains but very lightly.

Sorry you had to clean up that mess.

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Offline beersk

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 07:18:37 AM »
Looks suspiciously familiar to my one and only "malt conditioning" attempt. FWIW I get nearly whole husks as it is. Not worth the hassle.

yeah - I forgot how I did that for a while - monumental waste of time.
I wouldn't say it's a monumental waste of time, just not really worth the effort.  I conditioned my grain for a while and I still got stuck run offs when using oats, that was the whole reason I conditioned! So I said, eff it, if it's not going to help, than forget about it. Besides it's harder to crank my barley crusher when the grain is conditioned.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 08:03:01 AM »
yeah. It's not actually "wet" milling for a reason. The grain is not supposed to be wet for the reason you have experienced. It's only supposed to be moistened and then the moisture is allowed to be absorbed by the husks for a few minutes. If you submerse your grain in water you'll add too much water.

There is actual wet milling which mills the grain while submersed in water. But you need a different mill for that.

As for the benefits, I still do it but can't say that it makes much of a difference.

Kai

Offline mmitchem

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 08:12:47 AM »
Wow, that is some serious moisture. I condition the grain with a spray bottle as I am dumping it from scale to bucket. I just spray the grain as it falls in. I always let it sit at least 20 minutes before milling after all that spraying as well. It does make my grain bed seem "fluffier".

We live and learn right? At the very least it is a wild photo. How much grain were you milling there?
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Offline nateo

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 08:36:41 AM »
I was milling 2.5kg. I usually condition by mixing by hand in a bucket while spraying with a spray bottle. It takes a bit of time and my hand gets tired pumping the spray bottle, so I wanted to try a new method.

I'll reiterate though, that the wet (damp?) grain went through once at 1mm (0.04") with no problems. I believe that's a "standard" gap for most mills, and that most people only crush their grain once anyway. So under "normal" conditions, wet-milling seems to work fine.

When I condition I can run it through at 1mm and then again at 0.5mm, and it was only when running it through twice while wet that the flour became a problem.
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Offline malzig

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 04:45:14 AM »
I was milling 2.5kg. I usually condition by mixing by hand in a bucket while spraying with a spray bottle. It takes a bit of time and my hand gets tired pumping the spray bottle, so I wanted to try a new method.
You can get much of the benefit without trying to condition the whole batch.  I only spray for a few seconds, using about half the optimal water quantity, and see a clear improvement in husk quality and runoff rate.  My goal is to get dry grain going through the mill. 

Malt conditioning takes so little effort and gives a nice window of insurance against a stuck mash while allowing a crush that fully converts easily, I can't imagine why I wouldn't condition my malt.  I'm not willing to give up complete conversion to open my mill wide enough to get equivalent quality husks, just to save a few minutes.

Offline euge

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2012, 05:42:57 AM »
Malt conditioning takes so little effort and gives a nice window of insurance against a stuck mash while allowing a crush that fully converts easily, I can't imagine why I wouldn't condition my malt.  I'm not willing to give up complete conversion to open my mill wide enough to get equivalent quality husks, just to save a few minutes.

Wow. I've never heard that one before: that you risk incomplete conversion if you don't malt-condition. And may I suggest that stuck mashes can be avoided by controlling one's lauter rate?
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Offline mmitchem

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2012, 06:29:01 AM »
Wow. I've never heard that one before: that you risk incomplete conversion if you don't malt-condition. And may I suggest that stuck mashes can be avoided by controlling one's lauter rate?

Haha. I condition, but the times that I haven't have been just fine. Complete conversion, good grain bed and all of that. Might not be the best it could be, but still made some tasty brew. Conditioning helps to optimize your mash, but it isn't necessary by any means.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2012, 06:32:36 AM »
I'd agree that conditioning isn't absolutely necessary for an all-barley malt mash. But if you use a lot of adjuncts and don't use rice hulls, conditioning can prevent or mitigate stuck sparges.
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