Author Topic: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot  (Read 3678 times)

Offline mmitchem

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 07:13:52 AM »
I'd agree that conditioning isn't absolutely necessary for an all-barley malt mash. But if you use a lot of adjuncts and don't use rice hulls, conditioning can prevent or mitigate stuck sparges.
+1
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Offline hamiltont

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2012, 07:16:15 AM »
Wow, that is some serious moisture. I condition the grain with a spray bottle as I am dumping it from scale to bucket. I just spray the grain as it falls in. I always let it sit at least 20 minutes before milling after all that spraying as well. It does make my grain bed seem "fluffier".

We live and learn right? At the very least it is a wild photo. How much grain were you milling there?

+1...  My primary reason for conditioning the malt is to reduce the dust, and it works.  The real key is letting the malt rest before milling it. YMMV. Cheers!!!
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Offline malzig

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2012, 07:36:26 PM »
Malt conditioning takes so little effort and gives a nice window of insurance against a stuck mash while allowing a crush that fully converts easily, I can't imagine why I wouldn't condition my malt.  I'm not willing to give up complete conversion to open my mill wide enough to get equivalent quality husks, just to save a few minutes.

Wow. I've never heard that one before: that you risk incomplete conversion if you don't malt-condition. And may I suggest that stuck mashes can be avoided by controlling one's lauter rate?
Read the post again.  A finer crush can certainly help conversion.

Offline dcbc

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2012, 09:09:17 PM »
Wow, that is some serious moisture. I condition the grain with a spray bottle as I am dumping it from scale to bucket. I just spray the grain as it falls in. I always let it sit at least 20 minutes before milling after all that spraying as well. It does make my grain bed seem "fluffier".

We live and learn right? At the very least it is a wild photo. How much grain were you milling there?

This is basically what some brewers do at the pro level.  They run the grain through the auger, and into the MLT.  At the end of the auger, they attach a collar that is hooked up to an off shoot of the water inlet to the mash tun so that the grain is hydrated as it enters the tun.  Good for cutting down on dust and preventing dough balls ... possibly a few other things. 

At our level, I don't worry about it.  I just add the grain slowly and stir a lot.
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Offline jjflash

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2012, 09:57:28 AM »
0.6 ounces of water per pound of malt.
Apply with spray bottle.
Let stand 20 minutes or more.
I do this with all my grist.
Truly amazing how tight you can set the mill and the improved conversion.
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Offline euge

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2012, 01:17:11 PM »
Malt conditioning takes so little effort and gives a nice window of insurance against a stuck mash while allowing a crush that fully converts easily, I can't imagine why I wouldn't condition my malt.  I'm not willing to give up complete conversion to open my mill wide enough to get equivalent quality husks, just to save a few minutes.

Wow. I've never heard that one before: that you risk incomplete conversion if you don't malt-condition. And may I suggest that stuck mashes can be avoided by controlling one's lauter rate?
Read the post again.  A finer crush can certainly help conversion.

Yeah I read it again. You just reinforced my point.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline malzig

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2012, 04:46:17 PM »
Truly amazing how tight you can set the mill and the improved conversion.
At least somebody gets it.

Offline euge

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2012, 04:55:02 PM »
Truly amazing how tight you can set the mill and the improved conversion.
At least somebody gets it.

I get that it reduces dust. And also that it may help with lautering. I have absolutely no faith that it produces a superior conversion.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline malzig

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2012, 04:57:29 PM »
Truly amazing how tight you can set the mill and the improved conversion.
At least somebody gets it.
I get that it reduces dust. And also that it may help with lautering. I have absolutely no faith that it produces a superior conversion.
A finer crush will almost certainly improve conversion.  What's your current conversion rate?

Offline euge

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2012, 05:38:27 PM »
I've never had a problem with my mash converting. My finished beer isn't starchy and I hit my targets. So why would I bother to calculate at what is best an estimate? I agree a finer grist will increase the speed at which conversion occurs quite possibly but conversion will happen anyway and easily if one uses a proper range of mash ratios. Malt wants to convert its starches to sugar. I'd be more concerned with pH than crush.

I'm not saying not to malt condition and am not trying to be a problem for you. It obviously benefits some folks in some way. But to me at this point it is misinformation and an unnecessary step for the reason you stated.

I'll bow out now.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard P. Feynman

Offline denny

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2012, 10:03:04 AM »
Truly amazing how tight you can set the mill and the improved conversion.
At least somebody gets it.
I get that it reduces dust. And also that it may help with lautering. I have absolutely no faith that it produces a superior conversion.
A finer crush will almost certainly improve conversion.  What's your current conversion rate?

Jumping in here....I get 99-100% conversion efficiency regularly.  I crush very fine and don't condition the malt.  I think what euge is getting at is that you can achieve the same results without conditioning.  Now, if you've tried it both ways and conditioning works better for you, so be it.  But it's not the only way to get the kind if result you're talking about.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2012, 11:12:29 AM »
But it's not the only way to get the kind if result you're talking about.

No way! This is the Internet and only one person at a time is allowed to be right.
In der Kürze liegt die Würze.

Offline denny

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2012, 11:17:23 AM »
But it's not the only way to get the kind if result you're talking about.

No way! This is the Internet and only one person at a time is allowed to be right.

Let me know when it's my turn! ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline jjflash

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2012, 09:40:29 AM »
More important than malt conditioning is the quality of your mill.
Some mills will shread malt husks to pieces when set to narrow gap.
(Some are so poorly designed they seem to shred regardless of the gap setting.)
To compensate for this brewers will open the mill gap too large with resultant decreased conversion.
Some brewers will even routinely add rice hulls to prevent sparge issues.

The best mills will fine crush with minimal flour and leave husks more intact.
Quite often these brewers will have motor drives on their mills.
These quality mills can fine crush without lauter concerns and get great conversion.

So the bottom line is that some mills with malt conditioning will allow you to crush finer and which may improve your conversion. Will also help prevent lauter issues.

I suggest a quality mill with a motor drive.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 09:42:34 AM by jjflash »
---JJ---

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Offline brewmichigan

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Re: Wet milling fail / I'm an idiot
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2012, 02:22:24 PM »
But it's not the only way to get the kind if result you're talking about.

No way! This is the Internet and only one person at a time is allowed to be right.

Let me know when it's my turn! ;)

You had your turn already, let someone else have it  ;)
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