Author Topic: pitching temp  (Read 1741 times)

Offline andrew000141

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pitching temp
« on: November 27, 2012, 09:27:38 PM »
i have come to adopt the old rule of pitching yeast when the wort is blood warm, i usually pitch between 80-90. besides for the danger of hot side aeration(which i think is bologna) is there any reason i shouldnt pitch at this temp? I get very short lag time, i had a 1.090 imperial IPA made today with a 2 hour lag time from pitching to airlock activity and ive never had a yeast health issue. My beer turns out great but would chilling it down further make it better or can i just give in to my impatience and pitch?
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 09:48:19 PM »
I think you risk pretty major fuesel production that way. but I could be wrong. no worries about yeast health the like it that temp but I think that it will increase ester production ALOT.

lag time isn't bad. It is just how long the yeast are taking to reproduce to critical mass. Just like with bread, and pizza the flavour and mouthfeel will be improved if you let the concerned parties take their time getting ready.

but hey, if you are getting results you like so be it. just let the taste of the beer be the guideline, not how long it takes to see bubbles in the airlock
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Offline thomasben

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 09:51:59 PM »
If your using pure 02 or some other method that imparts an adequate amount of 02 into your wort then I would stray from your method.  I would make healthy starters, aerate well, cool to pitching temps 60-68(ales). And let it go.
Your method risks way too many off flavors. 

Homebrewing is a game of patience. I do what I described above and my beers kick off in a few hrs. Plus I'm much more comfortable keeping my yeast in an environment where the temperature doesn't swing high or low too often. Produces more consistent beer. Hope this helps.

Offline davidgzach

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 05:25:17 AM »
I stopped worrying about airlock activity in the first 24 hours after reading White & Jamil's Yeast book.  Lag time is not a bad thing unless it goes too long (36 hours+).  And a short lag time is not necessarily a good thing.  I now just try to pitch the appropriate amount if yeast in well aerated wort and try to be patient.

As for pithing temp.  I agree with Mort that you are in danger of creating some serious fusel alcohols and fruity esters.  But, like we all say, if you like it, then who cares?   :)

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Offline majorvices

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pitching temp
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 05:33:42 AM »
Simply put: You are not making the best beer possible pitching at those temps. You will be causing a myriad of off flavors including hot alcohols and other potential problems when you try to cool an actively fermenting beer down to proper temps. You are also risking major head aches from fusel production. Fermentation temp, including pitching temps, is one of the most important practices in brewing - it rivals sanitation in the final quality of your beer! You should never pitch higher than 70-72, and preferably (for most ale strains) in the low to mid sixties with a "proper" pitch of yeast (see the pitching calc on www.mrmalty.com to get an idea how much yeast you should be pitching for every batch). You should be sure to never let the fermentation temp, which will be 4-6 degrees higher than ambient at high krausen, get over 68-70 (72 at the highest) for most ale strains.

Some strains, such as WY1007 will need to be pitched and  fermented even cooler. WY1007 works best in the mid 50s.

Having a decent lag time is actually good for the flavor of beer. Having a super short lag time is NOT good for the flavor of beer. 12 to 24 hours is a "decent" lag time. Just because you can't see anything happening doesn't mean nothing is happening. The yeast are scavenging nutrients and oxygen an are budding and creating flavors in your beer. The key here is to restrain them from goping crazy and creating off flavors.

If you are ascribing to a rule that says pitch "blood warm" it is  avery ancient rule indeed, or a back woods, bath tub homebrew book. Don't do that! ;) I know you say your beer is turning out great, but I think you will be so much more pleased if you follow standard pitching practices. And you will probably wake up with less head aches as well.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:38:46 AM by majorvices »
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Offline poobah58

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 06:34:00 AM »
Well said major!
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 06:50:18 AM »
i have come to adopt the old rule of pitching yeast when the wort is blood warm, i usually pitch between 80-90. besides for the danger of hot side aeration(which i think is bologna) is there any reason i shouldnt pitch at this temp? I get very short lag time, i had a 1.090 imperial IPA made today with a 2 hour lag time from pitching to airlock activity and ive never had a yeast health issue. My beer turns out great but would chilling it down further make it better or can i just give in to my impatience and pitch?

Have you ever entered the beers in competitions? It may be great to you, but a judge may point out flaws that you are not aware of or are flavor blind to.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 07:06:24 AM »
i have come to adopt the old rule of pitching yeast when the wort is blood warm, i usually pitch between 80-90. besides for the danger of hot side aeration(which i think is bologna) is there any reason i shouldnt pitch at this temp? I get very short lag time, i had a 1.090 imperial IPA made today with a 2 hour lag time from pitching to airlock activity and ive never had a yeast health issue. My beer turns out great but would chilling it down further make it better or can i just give in to my impatience and pitch?

Have you ever entered the beers in competitions? It may be great to you, but a judge may point out flaws that you are not aware of or are flavor blind to.

Major and Jeff make really good points.  How are others reacting to your beer? 
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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 08:25:21 AM »
I imagine the old pitching warm advice helped negate the effects of underpitching, which was probably really common decades ago. The warm pitch would boost yeast growth a bit.  Pitching the right amount  of yeast at the right temperature will make much better beer.  Your wort is cooling and probably most fermentation takes place at the right temp, but many of the flavors created by yeast are produced during the growth phase, when your wort is warm.
 
Don't be fooled by lag time either, a short lag time may reassure you that the yeast is good, but it doesn't really have any other significant benefits. If your sanitation procedures are good, your wort can easily sit for 24 hours without ill effects.
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Offline andrew000141

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2012, 09:18:30 AM »
i have entered one local competition but the pre-judging hasnt even started yet so i have no idea how i did. Ive had good feedback from others drinking my beer although most of them are michelob ultra drinkers. My beer has persuaded two friends to start homebrewing. i dont think ive ever gotten a headache from my beer. looking at all the information you guys have posted here i think its finally time to invest in a wort chiller lol.
Fermenting:
Cherry melomel

In Kegs:
Saison
Irish Red
Thanksgiving Cider
Rye Pale Ale
IIPA
Ayinger Maibock clone
Moose drool clone

Bottles:
Mead

Keep your nose out of trouble and no trouble will come to you

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2012, 09:36:17 AM »
This one habit alone certainly won't ruin your beer, so it is not a case of good vs bad beer. It is more like good vs possibly better beer. Many people won't notice fusels and you'd have to drink a lot to get a headache (and likely get a headache anyway from the ethanol).  Other effects like increased esters won't make the beer bad, just different from what you intended. Esters are desired in some styles and a flaw in others. 
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2012, 09:52:07 AM »
i have entered one local competition but the pre-judging hasnt even started yet so i have no idea how i did. Ive had good feedback from others drinking my beer although most of them are michelob ultra drinkers. My beer has persuaded two friends to start homebrewing. i dont think ive ever gotten a headache from my beer. looking at all the information you guys have posted here i think its finally time to invest in a wort chiller lol.

a wort chiller is nice for sure. I am glad I have one but if you are just trying to get it from 80 down to 65 an overnight rest in a cool place or refridgerator with temp controller will also do the trick nicely. I have been doing this for a year now and have not had a problem leaving the wort overnight before pitching. knock on wood!
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Offline majorvices

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pitching temp
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2012, 10:03:20 AM »
Many people won't notice fusels and you'd have to drink a lot to get a headache  (and likely get a headache anyway from the ethanol). 

Depends. They don't bother me until the next morning but I have known folks who are extremely sensitive to fuels, so much so they get pounding headaches after a beer or two.

In my personal experience I was amazed at how much better my beer was when I started 1) managing pitching rates and 2) managing fermentation temp. I thought my beer was pretty good before taking those steps but even then knew there was Room for improvement.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 10:05:03 AM by majorvices »
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Offline anje

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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2012, 10:35:16 AM »
I'm inclined to speculate that the "pitch blood-warm" advice is more meant to restrain people from pitching too early, when the wort is hot enough to kill the yeast.
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Re: pitching temp
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2012, 11:01:49 AM »
Reduced lag time is not an end in itself.  The warm pitch temperatures also boost the activity of beer spoilers so reduced lag time doesn't necessarily mean less infections.
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