Author Topic: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine  (Read 3105 times)

Offline anje

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2012, 03:47:02 PM »

Wonder if this means I could make lagers in my tub-of-water temp control system?

I've been doing that for years, but the tub of water is in my garage for winter.
Not sure if I'm that daring. But we've been having temp swings on the order of 30F between day and night, lately.
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Offline weithman5

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2012, 04:12:17 PM »
i ferment in a cooler surrounded by ice packs i change them every few days. try to keep near 50 but sometimes up and down 5-6 degrees. dont think this has ever mattered and the mass of the beer is a pretty good thermal resevoir to mediate changes
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Offline denny

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2012, 04:26:11 PM »
i ferment in a cooler surrounded by ice packs i change them every few days. try to keep near 50 but sometimes up and down 5-6 degrees. dont think this has ever mattered and the mass of the beer is a pretty good thermal resevoir to mediate changes

Yep.  Between the beer and the tub of water, thermal swings are buffered pretty effectively.
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Offline gsandel

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2012, 05:20:55 PM »
I do think that there is a lesson to be learned here.

I also think that ingredients are better quality (and fresher) than they ever have been....which makes our hobby a little more forgiving.

I don't have temp control myself, but each year my brother and I do one lager, outdoors in the coldest weeks of the year....everything beyond the pitch is totally up to the weather gods.  I have never failed (in three attempts) to medal that beer....even with 40 degree temp swings for a few consecutive days at a time.

It wasn't NHC or anything (beer is usually gone before then), but two silvers and a gold, I will take.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2012, 06:08:41 AM »
DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT ....let my wife see this thread.  It will kill my chances of ever getting that thermal jacketed stainless conical fermenter.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2012, 06:23:40 AM »
I kind of think starch that is completely unconverted might just drop out rather than form haze.

I am told that Budweiser is fermented at 56F and lagered 3 weeks at 50F.  Doesn't get much cleaner than that.
Too bad it tastes like ass.

I've fermented WY2124 at ales temps for a 1554 clone, it works very well.

Personal tastes aside, the fact is that Bud is a classic example of the Standard American Lager.

I'm also told they are super-careful when it comes to oxidation.  All transfers are done under vacuum or CO2, bottles are purged and O2-absorbing caps are used.  Given that they analyze everything, I have to conclude that they wouldn't go to the trouble if it weren't for a good reason.  They may be more concerned with a long shelf life than a home brewer though.  Their style is also probably most susceptible to the effects of oxidation.  I just know that froma  corporate perspective, they wouldn't spend the money if it wasn't for a good reason.

Maybe if a brewery is fermenting in large volumes, the pressures encountered by the yeast reduce ester production.  I'm playing with pressurized fermentation and I find this to be the case.  I can ferment at warmer temps and still get a clean product.
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Offline beersk

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2012, 07:35:15 AM »
I kind of think starch that is completely unconverted might just drop out rather than form haze.

I am told that Budweiser is fermented at 56F and lagered 3 weeks at 50F.  Doesn't get much cleaner than that.
Too bad it tastes like ass.

I've fermented WY2124 at ales temps for a 1554 clone, it works very well.

Personal tastes aside, the fact is that Bud is a classic example of the Standard American Lager.


Can't disagree there, I guess I just don't like that beer. If it's free and there's nothing else, I might drink it.
But Anheuser-Busch has so much money, they can pretty use it for whatever they want. I mean they spend, what, several million a year on advertising? More? Kinda shows a little insecurity about their product that they have to advertise it so much. Yeah, like no one has heard of Bud Light...come on.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2012, 07:42:19 AM »
Can't disagree there, I guess I just don't like that beer. If it's free and there's nothing else, I might drink it.
But Anheuser-Busch has so much money, they can pretty use it for whatever they want. I mean they spend, what, several million a year on advertising? More? Kinda shows a little insecurity about their product that they have to advertise it so much. Yeah, like no one has heard of Bud Light...come on.


Probably more like over a hundred million!  Consider that a one minute super bowl spot is around $3.5 million alone.  However, that's the market for the big boys.  If you don't spend the money, Joe Six Pack starts buying Coors Light or Miller Light because they are on TV......
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Offline musseldoc

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2013, 08:22:57 AM »
Last night I joined my Boss at DejaBrew, an on-premise brewing place in Shrewsbury MA, to watch him and his friends brew a few batches of beer. Like many on-premise brewing places the brewing process is largely extract with specialty grains.

First thing I noticed is that even starchy grains like Aromatic and Rauchmalz get "steeped" in the full water volume while the water heats to 180F. No "proper" mash here but the beers don't seem to suffer from starch haze either. Looks like that even at the high water to grain ratio, that exist, the starches that make it into the water convert just fine.

They also pitch a single WL vial into 10 gal of cooled wort, even for lagers. The ales tasted fine and were enjoyable. The lagers were ok too, but did lack some of the flavors that I like in them. But none of the beers had off flavors that we commonly associate with under pitching.

Wort is aerated by shaking the heck out of the fermenters, which are plastic drums lined with plastic bags. I think that should be sufficient for the ales.

They used to have in-line aeration and propagated their own yeast, but got rid of it b/c they found that the additional work was not needed.

Go figure.

Kai

I am assuming the beers you drank were from previous brews?  Any chance the examples you were drinking were made with a little more TLC than the ones they make for customers?  It will be interesting to hear your evaluation once you taste the beers you made that day.
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Offline andrew000141

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Re: They do a lot of things "wrong" yet the beer tastes fine
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2013, 02:44:29 PM »
i recently made a maibock which fermented with 2308 at 59 degrees, turned out fantastic. no detectable esters(to my palate or any of my friends) and it didnt even need a diacetyl rest
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