Author Topic: 2 questions  (Read 4444 times)

Offline mudman

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Cheesehead
    • View Profile
2 questions
« on: December 04, 2012, 08:27:13 PM »
I am going to do another experimental small batch now that my sourdough one is done but I need some information before proceeding.  How much wheat can you use in a recipe and do you need a percentage of malted barley?   What would you use for bittering a beer if you couldn't use hops?
Mike

Offline morticaixavier

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2012, 08:42:08 PM »
You need enzymes. so either malted barley or malted wheat.

I just did a beer with 100% malted wheat and no hops just heather tips. it was nice. one bottle left. took 1 lb or heather tips to get enough flavor and bittering in there but it worked out in the end. mash stuck something fierce though. luckily when batch sparging you just stir it up real good and start over.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

Jonathan I Fuller

Offline micsager

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1048
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 09:09:14 AM »
And while I've never done this, I've read where dried nettles have been used instead of hops.

Offline erockrph

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2725
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • Critical Tastings
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 10:51:05 AM »
I don't know why anyone would want a beer without hops, but there is a whole list of herbs that could potentially be used for bitterness in Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher. They won't necessarily share hops' preservative qualities, however.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2489
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 11:22:38 AM »
There is a commercially produced heather beer that uses no hops. The heather supposedly provides bittering.

I have not tried it in years, as I found it to be nasty. But I think they still make it, so someone must be buying it.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline morticaixavier

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 11:26:08 AM »
I don't know why anyone would want a beer without hops, but there is a whole list of herbs that could potentially be used for bitterness in Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher. They won't necessarily share hops' preservative qualities, however.

hops are a pretty recent addition to brewing, lot's of other herbs have been used and many of them have the same preservative qualities of hops. The book Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers by Stephen Harrod Buhner is a great resource for ideas for non 'traditional' brewing ingredients (although many of these ingredients have a much longer and older history than the 'traditional' ones)
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

Jonathan I Fuller

Offline neemox

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 12:28:42 PM »
If you are interested in non-hop bittering, I would definitely suggest reading up on Gruit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruit as a starting place.

As Morticai points out, hops is the new comer in beer.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 12074
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 01:08:33 PM »
And I'd suggest trying to find a commercial non hop beer before you brew one.  You just might not like it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Online kramerog

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 821
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 01:36:18 PM »
I think the recommendation is to keep the DP (diastasic power?) over 50 for mashing.  As an example, 6-row barley has a DP of ~150, IIRC, while unmalted wheat has a DP of 0.  Therefore, a mix of 1 part 6-row and 2 parts unmalted wheat would have the minimum DP of 50 for mashing.
Brewers of South Suburbia
Brixie's Brewers
Oak Park Homebrewers

Offline micsager

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1048
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2012, 03:04:34 PM »
I was under the impression that in America, "beer" MUST contain hops.  I say this because a local nano does make a beer with nettles, but they ahve to put about 1/2 ounce of hops in or they call it "beer." 

(at least that's what the brewer told me)

Offline morticaixavier

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
  • Davis, CA
    • View Profile
    • The Best Artist in the WORLD!!!!!
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2012, 03:19:28 PM »
I was under the impression that in America, "beer" MUST contain hops.  I say this because a local nano does make a beer with nettles, but they ahve to put about 1/2 ounce of hops in or they call it "beer." 

(at least that's what the brewer told me)

They were wrong

Quote
As indicated above, the definition of a “beer” under the IRC differs from the
definition of a “malt beverage” under the FAA Act in several significant respects. First,
the IRC does not require beer to be fermented from malted barley; instead, a beer may
be brewed or produced from malt or “from any substitute therefor.” Second, the IRC
does not require the use of hops in the production of beer.

From http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/2008-3.pdf
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

Jonathan I Fuller

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1054
  • Da mihi sis cerevisiam.
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2012, 05:57:14 AM »
I made a spruce beer using fresh tips in the spring.  It turned out fine and left everyone guessing for a while what hope had been used.  A little goes a long way, though!
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline micsager

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1048
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2012, 10:05:26 AM »
I was under the impression that in America, "beer" MUST contain hops.  I say this because a local nano does make a beer with nettles, but they ahve to put about 1/2 ounce of hops in or they call it "beer." 

(at least that's what the brewer told me)

They were wrong

Quote
As indicated above, the definition of a “beer” under the IRC differs from the
definition of a “malt beverage” under the FAA Act in several significant respects. First,
the IRC does not require beer to be fermented from malted barley; instead, a beer may
be brewed or produced from malt or “from any substitute therefor.” Second, the IRC
does not require the use of hops in the production of beer.

From http://www.ttb.gov/rulings/2008-3.pdf

Thanks for posting that, it got me thinking about the sttement from the brewer.  Looks like my state (Washington) defines beer a bit differently:

(26) "Malt beverage" or "malt liquor" means any beverage such as beer, ale, lager beer, stout, and porter obtained by the alcoholic fermentation of an infusion or decoction of pure hops, or pure extract of hops and pure barley malt or other wholesome grain or cereal in pure water containing not more than eight percent of alcohol by weight, and not less than one-half of one percent of alcohol by volume. For the purposes of this title, any such beverage containing more than eight percent of alcohol by weight shall be referred to as "strong beer."

Looks like in Washington, "beer" must have hops. (at least if you want to sell it.) 


Offline mudman

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Cheesehead
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2012, 11:46:58 AM »
So I am leaning towards trying spruce tips, any tips? :P
Mike

Offline tschmidlin

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8195
  • Redmond, WA
    • View Profile
Re: 2 questions
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2012, 12:05:44 PM »
So I am leaning towards trying spruce tips, any tips? :P
I learned how to make spruce beer Pete Devaris, he gave a great talk on them at the NHC in Vegas - pick the fresh bright green tips in the spring, taste them to make sure they are good.  He prefers Sitka spruce, the farther north the better (he's from Alaska).  Measure by volume not weight, the weight varies too much depending on how recently it rained.  I've used a quart of tips in a 5 gallon batch and it had a clear spruce tip flavor (nice citrus-like quality - if it tastes piney you're doing it wrong).   I throw them directly in the boil for 60 minutes.
Tom Schmidlin