Author Topic: Effects of process variables on carbonation  (Read 1461 times)

Offline jfrey252

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Effects of process variables on carbonation
« on: December 05, 2012, 08:52:11 PM »
I am currently working on a project that is looking into the effects of several process variables on the carbonation of wine. I know this site is for homebrewing, and I am an avid homebrewer, which is why I chose the project, it was the closest thing I could find for a project that would allow me to work with alcohol!

Currently we are looking at how the sugar content, alcohol content, temperature, starting CO2 level, wine flow rate, and CO2 supply pressure effect the amount of CO2 that can be dissolved into the wine. I have been looking everywhere on the internet for information on this subject, and have not been able to find much on it. I am hoping that someone here might have some insight on the subject, or might have learned some things from brewing that could be applied to this project. If anyone could point me in the direction of where i could find information on this subject, or knows anything about it, I would be extremely appreciative. Thanks for all the help!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 08:58:06 PM by jfrey252 »

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Effects of process variables on carbonation
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2012, 12:10:54 AM »
If you have (or google) a carbonation chart, it will give you the maximum volumes of CO2 that dissolves at a given pressure and temperature.  I suspect these tables were derived for water, but I could be wrong.  I don't know of data that takes into account sugar or alcohol content, but it may be out there.  I'm not sure which flow rate you want to measure, so I don't know if it would have an affect on the CO2 levels.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline davidgzach

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Re: Effects of process variables on carbonation
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2012, 05:22:12 AM »
Here is what I use.  http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

From a previous discussion I was told that we could not get a FG high enough in brewing to have an effect on the numbers.

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Offline anje

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Re: Effects of process variables on carbonation
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2012, 09:40:36 AM »
I could very likely be wrong on this, but I suspect that the starting pH and alkalinity (buffering capacity) of the solution being carbonated might also play a role in determining how soluble the CO2 is in the liquid (wine, beer).
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Effects of process variables on carbonation
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2012, 09:43:24 AM »
My experience, along with what I have read, is that carbonating soda requires higher pressure due to the amount of sugar.

It may also be that sodas have a higher carbonation level, but I know that my root beer keg gets 45 psi and has a looooooong serving line to drop the pressure to reasonable level at the glass.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Effects of process variables on carbonation
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2012, 11:51:26 AM »
My experience, along with what I have read, is that carbonating soda requires higher pressure due to the amount of sugar.

It may also be that sodas have a higher carbonation level, but I know that my root beer keg gets 45 psi and has a looooooong serving line to drop the pressure to reasonable level at the glass.
Soda is more carbonated than beer - my sodas get 2x the psi as my beers do.  The sugar level really isn't all that high, SG should be about 1.050.
Tom Schmidlin

Offline jfrey252

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Re: Effects of process variables on carbonation
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 04:22:03 PM »
Thanks for the help, to clarify a little more, because iI just realized how poorly I explained the project. We are actually going to attempt to build a mathematical model based upon the variables I listed that can predict the set points needed to achieve a desired carbonation level. We have a good deal of data about the solubility based upon the temperature, and a little bit on the sugar content. But havent been able to find much of anything about how the other variables listed will effect the desired carbonation level. I think we are going to have to just do a bunch of experimenting to determine the effects because it just doesnt seem like there is much out there. Thanks a lot though, what you have been able to provide has really been helpful!