Author Topic: Cold Steeping Dark Grains  (Read 4125 times)

Offline yso191

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2012, 12:39:09 PM »
I too am very interested in this, and looking forward to the results of the experiments.

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 02:28:40 PM »
Some roasty flavor definitely still comes through in a cold steep, but it is less bitter and somewhat muted.

hmmm,

well my next dark beer is a tested recipe and I don't want to mess with it (NHC bound) but I will have to try this in the near future. sort of means a double (or triple) brew day or two (or three) brew days close enough to each other to fairly evaluate the differences of the dark malt addition timing/method.
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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 06:46:49 PM »
If you cold steep the dark grains, do you use that water in the mash?  Or do you add it to the boil?

When I did it with my Cherry Stout, I calculated the amout of water used to cold steep these grains from my total water used for the mash. I then added all of the cold steeped water to the boil with about 20 minutes to go (as told by a buddy). These seemed to work well, but I am still on the fence to see if this process is necessary......Good information coming!
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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 07:17:44 PM »
I'm curious if this is better than substituting carafa for the roasted barley in the mash, since carafa is also supposed to reduce astrigency.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2012, 07:57:57 PM »
I did the cold steep and even a cold steep with the cold steeped "wort" added at knockout.  It still has flavor, but it is muted, for sure.  But it works really well for a Schwarzbier or dark lager IMO.
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Offline kgs

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 08:41:39 PM »
I cold-steeped my last stout, brewed several months ago, and was disappointed. It didn't taste stout-y by a long shot. It was a nebbishy ale with a little dark roast flavor. That's not to say don't do it. But I have two observations. The first is that my stouts have never been too harsh. If anything they've leaned toward the sweet/under-attenuated side. So as a brewer, cold-steeping isn't a good match for me. The second is that I'm guessing many stout recipes on the sweet side already compensate for harshness. So if you're doing a milk stout or an oatmeal stout, and you've never had an issue... think twice. Or make a tiny batch.

I'm torn between being pleased I took a chance on a method -- what is this hobby about, after all -- and sad that my last brew before months in the Zymurgical Desert was so lame.
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Offline cheshirecat

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Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2012, 06:41:30 AM »
I do a cold steep for my CDA, which is a clone of Deschutes Hop in the Dark. From what I read they do a cold steep. Can't say it makes a difference but my beer comes out pretty darn good so I am happy. Only beer I do this for. I usually add the grains to about 2 gallons of water and let sit over night, then remove and let drain, then add to my sparge water.


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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 07:43:05 AM »
The first is that my stouts have never been too harsh. If anything they've leaned toward the sweet/under-attenuated side.

My stouts tend to be that way, too.  I've never noticed that my porter was harsh before this years' batches, and no one else complained so it's maybe just me being over-critical.  I have, however, been playing with different yeasts and used London ESB this time as opposed to Windsor or Nottingham or whatever I've used in the past.  I have noticed that the ESB yeast gives a much more pronounced hop bitterness, so maybe it's an effect of the yeast.

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2012, 08:12:23 AM »
Quote
with crystal malts the conversion is done. with roasted it is not...

I might be confused...

I was under the impression that roasted grains had no diastatic power and the sugars (although in low quantities) were converted during the roasting process. This is the reason that they do not need to be mashed.

Am I off the mark in this one? This seems like a pretty basic concept that I would really want to verify my comprehension of...
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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 08:35:46 AM »
Quote
with crystal malts the conversion is done. with roasted it is not...

I might be confused...

I was under the impression that roasted grains had no diastatic power and the sugars (although in low quantities) were converted during the roasting process. This is the reason that they do not need to be mashed.

Am I off the mark in this one? This seems like a pretty basic concept that I would really want to verify my comprehension of...

It is true that roasted grain has no diastatic power, but the starches are not converted. With crystal malts there is a 'mash' step in the processing where the green malt is stewed at high sach rest temps before being lightly (or not so lightly) kilned to dry. Thus when you split open a kernal of crystal malt you find that lovely little nugget of caramel. With roasted malts the green malt is kilned at a very high temp for a goodly long time. This destroys the enzymes but does not convert the starches into sugars. The starches when exposed to enzymes in the mash from the base malt are then converted to sugar. but the amounts you use in any normal recipe are so small that if you are using extract or adding the roasted malt at the end of the mash, or cold steeping you do not lose many gravity points over mashing normally.
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Offline mmitchem

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2012, 07:18:57 AM »
Makes sense to me. Relying on the diastatic power which is in an abundance from your base malt to convert the tiny bit of starch in the roasted stuff.
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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2012, 10:35:10 AM »
I'm curious if this is better than substituting carafa for the roasted barley in the mash, since carafa is also supposed to reduce astrigency.

Better?  Hard to say.   I think it's different.  Each has its place.
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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2012, 11:05:11 AM »
I'm curious if this is better than substituting carafa for the roasted barley in the mash, since carafa is also supposed to reduce astrigency.

Better?  Hard to say.   I think it's different.  Each has its place.
Care to elaborate on what the differences would be? I have no idea.
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Offline denny

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2012, 11:26:26 AM »
I'm curious if this is better than substituting carafa for the roasted barley in the mash, since carafa is also supposed to reduce astrigency.

Better?  Hard to say.   I think it's different.  Each has its place.
Care to elaborate on what the differences would be? I have no idea.

It's been along time since I've done cold steeping, but I recall that cold steeping gave me more roast flavor without astringency than carafa does.
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Offline kgs

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Re: Cold Steeping Dark Grains
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2012, 01:41:51 PM »
FWIW, the recipe that came out so lame was this one:

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/OatmealStout

I wouldn't discount that I didn't cold-steep correctly, and I have to believe the recipe is good. Some people obviously thought so.  :D I am doing the same recipe, maybe even tonight, because I accidentally bought twice as much grain the first time around (I halved the recipe -- missing that it was a double batch already) and promptly froze the remainder. I just measured, and the quantity is exactly half... I wondered how it would hold up, and after several months in the freezer it smells as if it was just milled (I double-bagged it in small trash bags). Onward replication brew, this time just mashing the grains together. At least I know how to mash!

(In double-checking the grain bill and so forth, and comparing it to other recipes, I realized there appears to be a general rule of thumb for oatmeal stout of about 4 oz of dark grains for every gallon of finished beer.)
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