Author Topic: An alternative to starters  (Read 2120 times)

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2012, 01:14:15 AM »
I don't see how this is better than taking some of the wort and making a starter with it, then pitching that into the batch the next day.  I think the smaller initial volume of the starter would be easier to manage.  But whatever works for you. :)
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Offline mmitchem

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2012, 06:32:04 AM »
I don't see how this is better than taking some of the wort and making a starter with it, then pitching that into the batch the next day.  I think the smaller initial volume of the starter would be easier to manage.  But whatever works for you. :)

This. Tom makes a good point. If it works into your schedule, right on. I am of the thinking that if I can expose the entire batch to a healthy pitch of yeast right off the bat, then I am leaving the batch less exposed to infection. Sanitation should be spot on even to attempt this sort of fermentation.

At the end of Kai's article he talks about continuous fermentation using this method. I think that is where you would see the biggest benefit in this practice. Brewing the same beer and always being able to supply a fresh pitch. The consistency achieved by doing this seems worth it alone, not to mention the money saved.
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Offline woodlandbrew

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 10:12:05 AM »
Hello,

You guys bring up some good points.  I have edited the blog post a little incorporating your thoughts.  Thanks!

I didn't realize that Kai had done an article on this technique and that it is a German method.  I guess nothing is new.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2012, 10:35:03 AM »
My biggest concerns are initial yeast viability and sanitary condition of the second batch of wort at the time of pitching. While this may be a viable method to producing quality beer, I'm not convinced this method's cost savings offsets the potential health/sanitary effects.
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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 10:50:37 AM »
From the yeast's perspective, this is just multi-batch brewing, although I think that most breweries brew the batches on the same day. Realistically, I don't think there's a significant risk associated with storing wort for a day or two (assuming, as always, best practices sanitation). The risk isn't zero, though.

As others have pointed out, there are no costs associated with making starters using wort from a previous batch. IMHO, if you're buying fresh yeast for each batch ($3-8) it isn't worth worrying about the price of DME for a starter (<$1) anyway.
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Offline beersk

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2012, 01:50:48 PM »
I don't see how this is better than taking some of the wort and making a starter with it, then pitching that into the batch the next day.  I think the smaller initial volume of the starter would be easier to manage.  But whatever works for you. :)
This idea sounds good to me too. Take about a half gallon of wort from the batch, pitch the yeast into that, and then pitch it all back to the main wort the next day. I've done something similar with lagers while they're chilling down to pitching temp in the chest freezer.
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Offline Kaiser

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2012, 02:35:38 PM »
Yes, that's pretty much the idea of Drauflassen.

As for storing wort, I have done it many times even for ales. Key is to keep the wort cool (below 50, I'd say) and keep it in the kettle. Any transfer risks infection.

I think there is a more practical approach for extract brewers here. As an extract brewer you can take some of your extract and some water to make a large stater one day earlier, add yeast and pitch the whole thing into the rest of the brew the next day. In that case the overhead is only a short boil the day before.

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Offline erockrph

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2012, 03:25:12 PM »
My all grain setup is for 3 gallon batches, but this sounds like a cool way to do a full batch if I ever wanted to. I'd just brew a 3 gallon batch one day, pitch my yeast, then brew a second batch and top off a day later.

I wonder what flavor impact there is, seeing you're pretty much adding a day to the yeast growth phase.
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Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 11:41:26 AM »
you're pretty much adding a day to the yeast growth phase.
Maybe not. By the time you add the second dose of wort the yeast will be rapidly multiplying. Additional growth won't take nearly as long. They'd be skipping the lag phase for the second dose.
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Offline jjflash

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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 04:02:04 PM »
I would use this technique if I had a 15 bbl kettle and a 30 bbl fermentor.
Would have to brew twice to fill the fermentor anyway.
Significant yeast cost difference 15 vs 30 bbl.
Perfect for that setup.
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Re: An alternative to starters
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2012, 04:13:56 PM »
Significant yeast cost difference 15 vs 30 bbl.

But that assumes you're pitching fresh yeast, which is unlikely. Even then, you're talking about an extra $100, give or take.
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