Author Topic: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar  (Read 1975 times)

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1563
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« on: December 19, 2012, 09:55:14 AM »
Will I see much difference aside from color by using cane "sugar in the raw" instead of table sugar?

What say you?
Thank you BEER!

Online mtnrockhopper

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2880
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 09:57:27 AM »
Color of the invert syrup or color of the finished beer. I doubt much color would transfer to the finished beer unless you use a lot in a very light beer.
Jimmy K

Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup when the old president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP: B0958

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1563
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 10:11:07 AM »
Color of the invert syrup or color of the finished beer. I doubt much color would transfer to the finished beer unless you use a lot in a very light beer.

I'm concerned with the finished beer which is very light at 3.1 SRM (BS estimate).  I know that the color of the syrup will mostly depend on how long I cook the sugar and acid.  I'm more curious about the difference in the base sugars used (table vs. raw) and how that would likely impact a light ale.   
Thank you BEER!

Online mtnrockhopper

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2880
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 10:13:06 AM »
That is light! I don't know the answer, but I'd be worried too.
Jimmy K

Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup when the old president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP: B0958

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1563
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 10:20:57 AM »
That is light! I don't know the answer, but I'd be worried too.

Oh, I'm not worried. Too much good homebrew around to worry ;)

Just curious is folks have a preference one way or the other and if so why.
Thank you BEER!

Offline piszkiewiczp

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 11:52:27 AM »
 You might notice a small difference in flavor. "Sugar in the Raw" is generally just large crystal table sugar with some molasses – residual sugar cane starches, proteins, etc.  The color from invert sugar is due to caramelization – breakdown products of the sugar molecules.  At higher concentrations, you could taste the difference.

Online kramerog

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 12:00:03 PM »
I think you are asking what would the difference be between invert sugar made from table sugar and invert sugar from raw sugar in a beer.  I'm speculating that there won't be much difference especially if the invert sugar is browned during inversion. 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 12:42:49 PM by kramerog »
Brewers of South Suburbia
Brixie's Brewers
Oak Park Homebrewers

Offline mihalybaci

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 01:04:08 PM »
To me, light brown sugar ("Sugar in the Raw", turbinado sugar, demerara, etc) has a distinct, but light, molasses flavor compared to white sugar, so depending on the percentage you might pick up some of that flavor. If that's not the intent, you'd probably be better off with pure white sugar. Also, the sugar should invert well before it starts to caramelize, so if a light beer is important, definitely pull the sugar off the stove before it starts to color.

Offline kmccaf

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 255
  • Kyle (Champaign, IL)
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 08:19:24 PM »
I have never made invert sugar, but I remembered seeing this post at Shut Up About Barclay Perkins saying that you should only use raw sugar to make invert:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/06/refined-sugar-vs-invert-sugar.html

Let us know how it turns out! I would really like to do this soon.
So it goes.

Online kramerog

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 08:11:50 AM »

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/06/refined-sugar-vs-invert-sugar.html


Interesting article, but it doesn't indicate why you invert sugar rather than using raw can sugar other than removing some minerals.
Brewers of South Suburbia
Brixie's Brewers
Oak Park Homebrewers

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *****
  • Posts: 6308
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 08:15:10 AM »
Supposedly invert sugar is easier for the yeast to digest. In my experience there was no difference when I tried it, from the results with regular sugar.
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Online kramerog

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 08:32:38 AM »
Supposedly invert sugar is easier for the yeast to digest. In my experience there was no difference when I tried it, from the results with regular sugar.

I've heard that before, but I'm skeptical at higher gravities.  I think gravity is how brewer's indirectly measure osmolarity so at higher gravity, the osmolarity makes it increasingly difficult for yeast to regulate their internal environment.  Invert sugars cause higher osmolarity at the same gravity since inverting creates a glucose and fructose from each sucrose.
Brewers of South Suburbia
Brixie's Brewers
Oak Park Homebrewers

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *****
  • Posts: 6308
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 09:07:50 AM »
I'm talking bout a 1.090 tripel. How much higher gravity do you think you need before you notice a difference in flavor or AA? I will say that incremental feeding (with sugar) has always given me a higher AA.
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Online kramerog

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 784
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2012, 09:22:50 AM »
I'm talking bout a 1.090 tripel. How much higher gravity do you think you need before you notice a difference in flavor or AA? I will say that incremental feeding (with sugar) has always given me a higher AA.

Perhaps the different osmolarities of different sugars isn't important with incremental feeding as alcohol tolerance is more important.  I was talking/thinking about the difference in yeast stress in worts of the same OG but with different osmolarity.  Anyway, I was just speculating; I have no data.
Brewers of South Suburbia
Brixie's Brewers
Oak Park Homebrewers

Offline Pinski

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1563
  • Portland, Oregon
    • View Profile
Re: Making Invert Sugar: table sugar vs. raw sugar
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2012, 11:10:42 AM »

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/06/refined-sugar-vs-invert-sugar.html


Interesting article, but it doesn't indicate why you invert sugar rather than using raw can sugar other than removing some minerals.

Since my invert sugar is destined for a very light beer I decided to go with table sugar and citric acid.  Next time I'll use raw cane sugar and see if I notice any difference.
Thank you BEER!