Author Topic: Forgot to add roasted barley  (Read 1383 times)

Offline flatlander

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Forgot to add roasted barley
« on: December 21, 2012, 06:12:18 AM »
Forgot to add 2lbs of roasted barley to 10 gal oatmeal stout. It is kegged and carbonated, can I steep the barley and add now?

Offline beersk

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 06:53:11 AM »
I'd say it's a bit late...
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Offline hubie

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 07:15:29 AM »
It does make me wonder what the effect would be if you did add it now.  I presume that roasted barley isn't fully converted, so you would be adding proteins which I assume could throw a haze, but it is an oatmeal stout so who cares?  I also assume you'd be adding more bitter and astringent polyphenols that probably would have either precipitated out in the boil or have been stripped out by the yeast, so maybe it would taste harsher than it would if it was added in the mash.

This has piqued my curiosity because it goes to what kind of adjustments you can do to your finished beer.  I would guess that the downsides outweigh the upsides otherwise it would be simplest to just make one blonde ale and turn it into five other beers afterwards, and the production breweries do not operate this way.  I'd be interested to hear what some others with a better brewing chemistry understanding than I have would say.

Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 07:16:58 AM »
No just call it a porter if its dark enough, or a brown ale.

Roast barley is made from green (nonmalted) barley.  And unless you boiled after steeping you'd probably get an infection.  Adding a handful of barley is one way to get a lacto culture going for a Berlinner weisse.
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Offline paul

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 07:29:42 AM »
Could you try it on a sample?  Pour a glass and steep a small amount of RB in your fridge for a few days and see what you get.  If it works, scale it up to the full batch.

Another possibility s to make it a coffee oatmeal porter.  You can easily add coffee or espresso at this point and give it a bit more roast character.  Again, I'd try it on a sample to get the ratio you want.

Offline anje

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 07:31:50 AM »
How's it taste now, as oatmeal not-stout?  If it's drinkable, I'd just go with it.
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Offline mabrungard

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 08:02:32 AM »
If there are enough yeast in the beer to re-ferment the roast addition, it would be possible to steep and add that missing component.  This is exactly what Guinness Flavor Extract is, a separately steeped and added wort component.  For the most part, roasted malts don't really add fermentables.  But there could be a little.  I'm more worried about starches and haze.

Since this beer has been chilled and carbonated, I'd doubt that it would work in the keg.  But you might be able to separately ferment the GFE component.  I would 'mash' this roast with a little 2 row just to make sure that any convertable starches are reduced to sugars and to give that yeast charge something to work on.  Then add that beer to the keg. 
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Offline nateo

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 08:24:36 AM »
Martin - I've thought about that process, but I haven't tried it. I had an Imperial stout that wasn't as dark/roasty as I wanted it to be.

As an aside: Does Sinamar have a flavor? Or is it just for coloring?
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 08:39:15 AM »
Just coloring.  It does have a nice bit of caramel aroma, nothing roasty.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline mtnrockhopper

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:12 AM »
The practical side says just enjoy your brown ale. The experimental side says cold steep 1lb crushed in 3 cups of water. Strain and boil it. You should have almost 2 cups of dark barley liquid. Add 3/4 tablespoon to a pint and drink it. If you like it add the rest to 5 gallons in a keg.
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Offline flatlander

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 02:40:24 PM »
Thanks everybody for your answer. It is a drinkable beer and I may stick with that, but on the other hand. mtnrockhopper's plan sounds tempting, may have to try it after the holidays. Will let you know.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 04:35:25 PM »
The practical side says just enjoy your brown ale. The experimental side says cold steep 1lb crushed in 3 cups of water. Strain and boil it. You should have almost 2 cups of dark barley liquid. Add 3/4 tablespoon to a pint and drink it. If you like it add the rest to 5 gallons in a keg.

That is what I would do. Question for others - how is Sinimar made?
Jeff Rankert
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Offline denny

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Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 06:59:27 PM »
The practical side says just enjoy your brown ale. The experimental side says cold steep 1lb crushed in 3 cups of water. Strain and boil it. You should have almost 2 cups of dark barley liquid. Add 3/4 tablespoon to a pint and drink it. If you like it add the rest to 5 gallons in a keg.

That is what I would do. Question for others - how is Sinimar made?

From the Weyermann website....

SINAMAR® is produced solely from our roasted malt CARAFA®, according to the strict German "Reinheitsgebot" (purity-law). This law allows the brewer to use only the following four ingredients:

MALT - HOPS - YEAST - WATER

To get the characteristic color and extract, SINAMAR® is carefully evaporated in a vacuum process, finely filtered and canisters and containers of different sizes are filled directly at 158°F - 167°F (70 - 75°C).
Due to this special treatment the taste of SINAMAR® is less bitter.
SINAMAR® causes no turbidity and remains pH stable.

According to federal regulations, SINAMAR® does not need to be labeled with a so-called E-number (European Community Number).
A declaration as malt extract, barley malt extract or roasted malt extract is sufficient.

SINAMAR® is gluten free.

SINAMAR® is perfectly suited for coloring foods such as: baked goods, beer, non-alcoholic drinks, spirits, pharmaceutical products and tea etc.

Recommended Quantities:
Use 14 g (11.9 ml) of SINAMAR® Color Malt Extract to darken 1 hl of beer or wort by 1 EBC; or use 1.5 oz. (1.25 fl.oz.) to darken 1bbl of beer or wort by 1° Lovibond.

Unopened containers have a 18 month shelf-life.
Once opened, contents should be used immediately and stored cool.   
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 07:30:56 PM »
The practical side says just enjoy your brown ale. The experimental side says cold steep 1lb crushed in 3 cups of water. Strain and boil it. You should have almost 2 cups of dark barley liquid. Add 3/4 tablespoon to a pint and drink it. If you like it add the rest to 5 gallons in a keg.

That is what I would do. Question for others - how is Sinimar made?

From the Weyermann website....

SINAMAR® is produced solely from our roasted malt CARAFA®, according to the strict German "Reinheitsgebot" (purity-law). This law allows the brewer to use only the following four ingredients:

MALT - HOPS - YEAST - WATER

To get the characteristic color and extract, SINAMAR® is carefully evaporated in a vacuum process, finely filtered and canisters and containers of different sizes are filled directly at 158°F - 167°F (70 - 75°C).
Due to this special treatment the taste of SINAMAR® is less bitter.
SINAMAR® causes no turbidity and remains pH stable.

According to federal regulations, SINAMAR® does not need to be labeled with a so-called E-number (European Community Number).
A declaration as malt extract, barley malt extract or roasted malt extract is sufficient.

SINAMAR® is gluten free.

SINAMAR® is perfectly suited for coloring foods such as: baked goods, beer, non-alcoholic drinks, spirits, pharmaceutical products and tea etc.

Recommended Quantities:
Use 14 g (11.9 ml) of SINAMAR® Color Malt Extract to darken 1 hl of beer or wort by 1 EBC; or use 1.5 oz. (1.25 fl.oz.) to darken 1bbl of beer or wort by 1° Lovibond.

Unopened containers have a 18 month shelf-life.
Once opened, contents should be used immediately and stored cool.

It was a rhetorical question. Does not look like they mash it, no?

Gordon Strong gives a few ways to cold steep in Brewing Better Beer page 45. One is to cold steep, then add the liquid to the boil with 5-10 minutes to go, no mash required. He also says you can Pasteurize the liquid and keep in a sanitized mason jar, as it is stable, sort of DIY Sinimar.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild, AHA Member, BJCP Certified
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline denny

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Forgot to add roasted barley
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 08:09:33 PM »
Nope, nothing there indicates that they mash it, although I've heard it is mashed.  But I'm starting to think that's incorrect.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe