Author Topic: Sea World; Killer Whale  (Read 2964 times)

Offline akr71

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2010, 11:42:15 AM »
Humans created this mess - not the whale.

+1

These creatures can live up to 90 years in the wild.  I would imagine by now some pods have a much deserved mis-trust of humans.

Has no one seen the movie "Orca" (1977)?  I saw it on TV as a kid...
"A hunter squares off against a killer whale seeking vengeance for the death of its mate"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076504/
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Offline denny

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2010, 11:53:48 AM »

He was the prime male for their breeding stock.  I find it repugnant that that trumps human safety.

Whale is as Whale does. -Forrest Gump

Humans created this mess - not the whale.

Agreed.  And it will be too bad if the whale has to pay for it.  But if the whale can't be "repatriated" (and maybe it can), it needs to be kept away from humans somehow.
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Offline nicneufeld

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2010, 01:23:59 PM »
For the record, the solution of putting the whale down isn't a judgement against the whale...they aren't "evil" for killing, they are natural, as I think we all agree.  But I don't see a huge difference, at least morally speaking, with putting down Willy any more than shooting a cougar that keeps encroaching on human settlements and attacking, or, for that matter, taking anti-bacterial medicine.  Two things set it apart, principally...a sort of anthropomorphizing orca-love that makes us love to put these animals in cages and teach them tricks and imagine they are peaceful doves of the sea, and as keeps getting mentioned, $$$.  I would say the former is a myopic view that denies a wild animal its natural wildness and really is only self-delusion, and the latter, well, in a cold-hearted way its very practical admittedly, but rather insulting and degrading to the families of those that these animals (quite naturally) kill.  Obviously if that trainer had (perhaps even accidentally!) killed that orca the company would be much more likely to fire her than they are to get rid of the attacking whale, and although that's a silly analogy, the point is to the bean counters, the whale is vastly more valuable than the human.

EDIT: and if there is a good way to quarantine the animal without killing it, that's great!  I certainly wouldn't advocate killing the animal as some sort of misguided "revenge" for taking a human life, I just want to make that clear!

Offline beerocd

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2010, 05:54:23 PM »
But I don't see a huge difference, at least morally speaking, with putting down Willy any more than shooting a cougar that keeps encroaching on human settlements and attacking, or, for that matter, taking anti-bacterial medicine.

In your example the cougar and the viruses are not captured, trained, and played with for the enjoyment of humans at vast profit to the owners.(as you also said in your post) Killing the whale in this instance is not necessary for survival or safety. Just stay out of the tank!  ;)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 05:59:06 PM by beerocd »
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline capozzoli

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2010, 06:33:47 PM »
Most of the people that go to see those Seaworld type shows think the animals are fish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NO8h_uTkdU

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Offline dean

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2010, 06:47:12 PM »
But I don't see a huge difference, at least morally speaking, with putting down Willy any more than shooting a cougar that keeps encroaching on human settlements and attacking, or, for that matter, taking anti-bacterial medicine.

In your example the cougar and the viruses are not captured, trained, and played with for the enjoyment of humans at vast profit to the owners.(as you also said in your post) Killing the whale in this instance is not necessary for survival or safety. Just stay out of the tank!  ;)


Beerocd, have you heard any of the news reports at all?  The trainer was not in the tank, he snatched her ponytail and pulled her in then drowned her... shaking her violently.  He didn't spit her out either.... they had to further contain him and force his mouth open to get her body out, in other words he didn't just think she was a piece of seaweed caught in his teeth.  The wale is a rogue now, as much as I'd like to think he can be kept safely... I doubt it very much.  Somebody will have to feed him if nothing else, it would be more humane to put him to sleep.

Either way, somebody is going to get sued I'm sure... everybody pays the fiddler, one way or another. 

Offline weazletoe

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2010, 07:21:12 PM »
 I grew up not 45 mins from Sea World of Aurora Ohio. I was even in the grandstands the day the boat crashed in. (just google my name, Barry Benoit) I will freely admit, I loved the Shamu Show, though I had mixed feelings about keeping a whale in a pen. I think it all goes back to what has been sated already.he name KILLER whale.
  When he lion tamer sticks his head in the lions mouth, and the lion chomps down, you can' get mad a the lion. I slam my mouth shut too when you stick food in it. Shamu does he same when you put food in or near his tank. Yeah, it's sad, but those trainers go in know they are taking a risk, working with KILLER whales.
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Offline tygo

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2010, 08:10:49 PM »
+1 to Weazletoe.  If you're one of those trainers you have to know you're playing with fire.  Or in this case playing with a 7000 pound killing machine.  If the machine does what it's designed to do you really can't blame it.  I don't think this whale is any more likely to kill someone than he was before.  He's not a "premeditated killer".  He's a whale that eats stuff smaller than him in the food chain.  Or more likely, a whale that plays with what it feels are toys.

Perhaps we shouldn't be using these animals as spectacles but I don't care to get on a high horse about that.  If we do use them as such then we need to accept the possibility that they will act in accordance with their nature, and we shouldn't punish them for that.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2010, 08:53:17 PM »
For years now we have defied the odds of Mother Nature and once again as the saying goes "Don't mess with Mother Nature".
We can't blame the whale, but we must learn from this unfortunate circumstance.

Free Willy!  ;)
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Offline beerocd

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2010, 09:02:53 PM »
Beerocd, have you heard any of the news reports at all?

You mean news like this?
"[the] protocol was not to be around Tilikum's mouth while you're laying down" on the water-covered platform called the slide-out.

Lying down "is a very vulnerable position to be in with an animal like Tilikum," Lacinak continued. "And apparently her ponytail drifted into the water, he just opened his mouth, sucked it in and pulled her in the water."


How much of yourself would have to be in the tank for you to consider yourself in the tank Dean?
(BTW: I think this is a favorite sport for both of us - so let's not go ten pages  :P )
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 09:24:54 PM by beerocd »
The moral majority, is neither.

Offline babalu87

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2010, 10:15:07 PM »
+1 to Weazletoe.  If you're one of those trainers you have to know you're playing with fire.  Or in this case playing with a 7000 pound killing machine. 

12,000lbs
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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2010, 05:20:19 AM »

Agreed.  And it will be too bad if the whale has to pay for it.  But if the whale can't be "repatriated" (and maybe it can), it needs to be kept away from humans somehow.
[/quote]

How about the ocean? I can't understand why it is not let go. I mean, besides the cost factor.
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Offline dean

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2010, 05:58:09 AM »
Foxnews just had a report on it with whale and dolphin expert; Russ Rector, as their guest speaker.  He had warned them in a letter in 2007 that this would happen with this whale.   The whale had killed two other trainers in the past.  Killer Whales were not called Killer Whales until sometime in the 1960's, they were called "Whale Killers" but people wouldn't pay to see Whale Killers... so the name was reversed.  They are actually dolphins not whales and there are no documented accounts of them attacking humans in the wild.  Russ Rector said this Killer Whale IS a killer, and he did not make it sound like it could be repatriated.

Offline babalu87

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2010, 06:41:25 AM »
Foxnews just had a report on it with whale and dolphin expert; Russ Rector, as their guest speaker.  He had warned them in a letter in 2007 that this would happen with this whale.   The whale had killed two other trainers in the past.  Killer Whales were not called Killer Whales until sometime in the 1960's, they were called "Whale Killers" but people wouldn't pay to see Whale Killers... so the name was reversed.  They are actually dolphins not whales and there are no documented accounts of them attacking humans in the wild.  Russ Rector said this Killer Whale IS a killer, and he did not make it sound like it could be repatriated.

Their all Killers and the name Whale Killer wasnt correct anyway.
They dont exclusively kill whales.

I'm with Keith
Let it go
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Offline uthristy

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Re: Sea World; Killer Whale
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2010, 08:15:52 AM »
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2010/02/seaworld-tragedy-former-co-worker-tells-wftv-she-is-to-blame.html

WFTV-Channel 9 offered a provocative report today about the trainer’s death at SeaWorld.

A former co-worker told the station that trainer Dawn Brancheau was to blame when her hair floated over the mouth of killer whale Tilikum. The massive creature responded by dragging her under Wednesday, and she drowned.

Thad Lacinak, a former head trainer at SeaWorld, said the trainers knew to stay away from the whale’s mouth. “The protocol was not to be around Tilikum’s mouth while you’re laying down,” he said.

Reporter Emily Turner explained that Lacinak said Brancheau “became too comfortable with the animal she loved so much.”