[hopfenundmalz]

with crystal malts the conversion is done. with roasted it is not...

I might be confused...

I was under the impression that roasted grains had no diastatic power and the sugars (although in low quantities) were converted during the roasting process. This is the reason that they do not need to be mashed.

Am I off the mark in this one? This seems like a pretty basic concept that I would really want to verify my comprehension of...

It is true that roasted grain has no diastatic power, but the starches are not converted. With crystal malts there is a 'mash' step in the processing where the green malt is stewed at high sach rest temps before being lightly (or not so lightly) kilned to dry. Thus when you split open a kernal of crystal malt you find that lovely little nugget of caramel. With roasted malts the green malt is kilned at a very high temp for a goodly long time. This destroys the enzymes but does not convert the starches into sugars. The starches when exposed to enzymes in the mash from the base malt are then converted to sugar. but the amounts you use in any normal recipe are so small that if you are using extract or adding the roasted malt at the end of the mash, or cold steeping you do not lose many gravity points over mashing normally.

The starch is not converted, but how much survives the roasting process?  Just asking.

[hopfenundmalz]

The article by Mary Anne Gruber on cold steeping is in the Jan.- Feb 2002 Zymurgy, page 49-50.

Edit - now online.

[Siamese Moose]

I just did the cold steeping technique with the chocolate malt for an American Brown. (Brewed for a national television audience - details to come when I know the air date.) I have found that the beer is lacking in intensity for the chocolate character. The recipe originally called for 8 ounces of chocolate malt. I steeped 10. I first added the equivalent of 6 ounces, and found it very weak. I added all of the rest, and it's improved, but still weak. I'm going to steep more grain, and blend it in soon. I'm curious about other people's experiences here. Have you gotten good results with the same amount of grain as you previously mashed, or did you need to use more grain? I'll add that I really like the smooth character, but it just needs to be bumped up a bit from where it is now. The nice thing is, it's easy to bump it up with this method.

[hopfenundmalz]

I just did the cold steeping technique with the chocolate malt for an American Brown. (Brewed for a national television audience - details to come when I know the air date.) I have found that the beer is lacking in intensity for the chocolate character. The recipe originally called for 8 ounces of chocolate malt. I steeped 10. I first added the equivalent of 6 ounces, and found it very weak. I added all of the rest, and it's improved, but still weak. I'm going to steep more grain, and blend it in soon. I'm curious about other people's experiences here. Have you gotten good results with the same amount of grain as you previously mashed, or did you need to use more grain? I'll add that I really like the smooth character, but it just needs to be bumped up a bit from where it is now. The nice thing is, it's easy to bump it up with this method.

Dr. Fix said it was not as efficient, so you need to use 1.5 to 2 2 to 3 times the grain. Scroll down.
http://www.cascade-brewers.com/faq/