Author Topic: Amounts  (Read 1632 times)

Online yso191

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Amounts
« on: January 19, 2013, 09:52:32 PM »
As a class project I am brewing a beer for a competition.  The winner will have the beer produced by a regional brewery.

My entry will be a Saison featuring Belma hops.  I referenced a book called the Flavor Bible to see what spices complemented the dominant flavors of Belma (Strawberry. melon, orange), and came up with Lemon and Ginger as complimenting all three.

So my question is, how much lemon zest and ginger root should I use for a 5 gallon batch.  I'm not looking for a spice beer, just something that adds complexity and interest.  As a side note black or white pepper were also complimentary!

I'm also looking for input in any other way, so here is the basic recipe.The following amounts are for a ten gallon batch.  Five gallons for me, five for my project partner who will do different things on the cold side.

7 lbs Belgian 2 row
7 lbs Belgian Wheat malt
1 lb. crystal 10
8 oz. Caramunich (56 SRM)
1.5 lbs. Honey
2 oz. Belma in the mash
1 oz. Styrian Goldings 60 min.
4 oz. Belma 5 min.
6 oz. Belma hopstand for ~30 min.
4 oz. Belma Dry hop for 7 days
Wyeast 3711 French Saison yeast

This will result, according to BeerSmith, in:
5.5% ABV
33 IBU
5.6 SRM

Thank you for your help.
Steve

Offline mugwort

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 01:08:10 AM »
My initial impression of the recipe poses the question, how will the judges think that is a saison rather than something like an american pale, etc.?

In any case, I would strongly suggest splitting your batch into a few different carboys.  That way, you could parallel-ferment a portion with say WLP565 (the Dupont strain) or WLP550 (pretty spicy) to accompany and perhaps counterbalance your uniquely fruity hopload.

I would also recommend portioning when you do your spice addition.  As you probably know, both lemon and ginger are dominant spices and can easily be overdone.  Adding your spices to only a portion of your total batch would lend great flexibility as well as insurance.  If you found the additions excessive, you could blend in a portion of the unspiced beer, or simply try a different level of spice addition to an unadulterated portion.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 01:13:04 AM by mugwort »
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Online yso191

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 06:37:31 AM »
My initial impression of the recipe poses the question, how will the judges think that is a saison rather than something like a pale, etc.?

First, thank you for your input.  Is it the hop load that has you asking this question, or a grain issue?  If it is the hop load, I have never brewed with Blema before, but in my reading, several have said it is light in the flavor area, so I loaded the flavor additions.

My main thinking about the Saison identity is the yeast, the light body, acidity, and lower ABV - but mainly the yeast.  How can I make it more true to style?  I do want it to be a Saison, just putting a unique spin on it.  Thanks!
Steve

Offline Mark G

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 07:15:31 AM »
That's a pretty heavy dose of hops for a Saison. I haven't tried Belma hops yet, so it's hard for me to say what I think is the right level. Maybe someone else who has tried them could comment further.

If you're trying to stay true to style, you might want to consider dropping the crystal/caramel malts. You want this beer to have a bone-dry impression.
Mark Gres

Offline erockrph

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 08:04:47 AM »
First and foremost, this looks like a damn tasty beer. I commend you on the amount of hops you're stuffing in here. This looks like how I'd approach a Saison, which means this will probably do lousy at the judges table :P

For a competition, I think you really need to focus on drinkability first and foremost in a Saison. Crisp, and dry and spicy yeast first, then hops and spices will work as background notes. I'd cut the late hops to a quarter of what you have.

I leave suggestions for amounts of ginger and lemon zest to those with experience, but I'd recommend either making a tincture of each and dosing to taste at bottling, or adding them in bags in secondary and pulling them once the flavor intensity hits the level you're shooting for.
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Online yso191

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 08:19:19 AM »
That's a pretty heavy dose of hops for a Saison. I haven't tried Belma hops yet, so it's hard for me to say what I think is the right level. Maybe someone else who has tried them could comment further.

If you're trying to stay true to style, you might want to consider dropping the crystal/caramel malts. You want this beer to have a bone-dry impression.

I added the crystal to get the color up into the bottom range for a Saison.  Is there a better way?
Steve

Online yso191

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 08:59:59 AM »
Oh.  I should have clarified: This competition has nothing to do with BJCP style guidlines.  The beers will be judged just on how good they are.
Steve

Offline redbeerman

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 09:58:17 AM »
With the amount of hops you are using lemon zest may not come through in the taste or aroma.  I usually use one or two lemons worth per 5 gallons.  The ginger would lend some bite, but I don't know how the flavor will come out.  Assuming you are using fresh root, I would use about two tablespoons to 1/4 cup grated.
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Offline Mark G

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Re: Re: Amounts
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 10:01:25 AM »
That's a pretty heavy dose of hops for a Saison. I haven't tried Belma hops yet, so it's hard for me to say what I think is the right level. Maybe someone else who has tried them could comment further.

If you're trying to stay true to style, you might want to consider dropping the crystal/caramel malts. You want this beer to have a bone-dry impression.

I added the crystal to get the color up into the bottom range for a Saison.  Is there a better way?
You could add some Munich. It will give you a little color and some malt complexity. Since the competition isn't based on style guidelines though, you could just run with the recipe you've got and call it a Belgian Pale Ale-ish.
Mark Gres

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 09:23:11 PM »
I too think the caramunich and crystal 10 is way too much for a saison unless you're trying to go for more of a dark/winter saison. Saisons can be extremely light. Even pilsner light. For my taste I would cut out the crystal and caramunich and just use munich, which is really common in saison recipes. Helps create some malty character without sweetness or too much body.

I'm curious why you are using styrian for the bittering charge? It's a good flavor for saison that probably makes sense later in the boil for some flavor or aroma. I'd use the belma for bittering instead (or anything else).

Farmhouse Ales recommends .7-1.2 grams of ginger per 5 gallons. I think you would be ok somewhere in the low to mid range so the flavor isn't competing with the hops but you get that refreshing character hidden in the beer. It doesn't give a suggestion for lemon peel but 7-14 grams/5 gallons for bitter orange peel. Lemon peel is a bit more potent than bitter orange peel so I'd say maybe 4-8 grams but still keeping on the mid to low side just so it's giving character without competing for flavor.
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Offline alcaponejunior

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2013, 09:02:24 AM »
That's a pretty heavy dose of hops for a Saison. I haven't tried Belma hops yet, so it's hard for me to say what I think is the right level. Maybe someone else who has tried them could comment further.

If you're trying to stay true to style, you might want to consider dropping the crystal/caramel malts. You want this beer to have a bone-dry impression.

on belma hops, tasting notes from my belma IPA

I have drank four of them so far, and these comments are accurate from my perspective on the beer that I made.  I do think they'd go well in a saison, but I am basing this purely on speculation, not experience. 

These comments are part of the blog post with the full recipe I used.

Online yso191

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013, 10:00:13 AM »
Thank you everyone.  some really good input here.
Steve

Offline snowtiger87

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Re: Amounts
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2013, 02:22:09 PM »
I would leave out the lemon zest and ginger additions. The 3711 yeast is plenty spicy and from the description of the hops you will get a lot of fruity character from them. I agree with the suggestions to drop the crystal malts in favor or Munich.
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