Author Topic: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help  (Read 1072 times)

Offline Jeff M

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Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« on: March 04, 2013, 07:49:08 PM »
So im looking for some help trying to figure out if this is possible.  My best friend and brewing buddy is having his first child in July and wants to brew a special beer for his childs birth.  We talked tonight and thought a Blackberry wheat would work well for what he had in mind and what would be good for drinking due to the time of year.  I have yet to really buy a recipe book and am looking for 2 parts of help.

1) does anyone have a stellar Blackberry Wheat Recipe?
2) is it possible to use the Parti-gyle technique to make a barley wine off the first runnings and convert the mash into whats needed for a Blackberry wheat? 

Most of my research and readings have been about techniques and such, Beer style is just leaps and bounds ahead of what i am ready to research.  A little help or a push int he right direction from a seasoned brewer would be wonderful.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Offline lornemagill

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 08:42:19 PM »
i wont be able to give you much help as ive only done one parti gyle.  it was a wee heavy/cali common.  turned out great and was straight forward and easy.  use this link http://www.astrocaver.com/java/Parti-Gyle.html to help with your calculations.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 11:20:40 AM »
You should be able to do that.

Check out sean Terrill's partigyle calculator, that's a goodplace to start. It is targeted at batch spargers, so if you fly sparge google partigyle calculators and there are some others out that with that assumption built in.

So for the barley wine you want (and this is just ball park assuming 5 gallons of each beer)
~25 lbs grain (I like mostly to all 2 row or mostly to all munich for a super malty BW)
mash around 2 qt/lb and a low temp (149-153)
after 1-2 hours run that off into your kettle and start boiling

Add a couple lb pils malt or 2 row, some 3-4 lbs wheat or wheat malt or a combination and mash in with an amount of water = to your desired pre-boil volume on the second beer + a couple quarts. aim for a higher temp, maybe (155-160) and let that mash for another 30-45 minutes. Run off into a second kettle and start that boil.

On the blackberry wheat recipe if not partigyle I am fond of 40% 2 row 60% wheat. I don't know how you want to do the fruit part so I will leave that to someone else.
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Offline Jeff M

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 01:52:57 PM »

On the blackberry wheat recipe if not partigyle I am fond of 40% 2 row 60% wheat. I don't know how you want to do the fruit part so I will leave that to someone else.

I honestly have no clue how to do the blackberry part, i havent done much reading on fruit beers as they tend to not be my thing.  suggestions would be wonderful and i can make a decision from there.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 02:10:02 PM »

On the blackberry wheat recipe if not partigyle I am fond of 40% 2 row 60% wheat. I don't know how you want to do the fruit part so I will leave that to someone else.

I honestly have no clue how to do the blackberry part, i havent done much reading on fruit beers as they tend to not be my thing.  suggestions would be wonderful and i can make a decision from there.

I THINK the Long Trail Black Beary wheat is made with blackberry flavoring. There are a range of extract and flavoring products available. If you use one I would wait till fermentation is over and dose a small sample before packaging to determine the correct level, then scale it up. If you do this the generally accepted wise course is to cut the 'scaled up' amount by 20% or so and taste again after adding that to the full batch.

You could add real (fresh or frozen) fruit but it is out of season and will be expensive. there might be fruit purees available. Check out oregonfruit.com. those you could just add to the primary after most the fermentation starts to die down a bit.  The general rule is 1-2 lb per gallon (low side for purees I believe.)
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Offline Jeff M

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 05:00:29 PM »
I think id rather go the real fruit way rather then the extract route.  extracts in coffees etc tend to give me heart burn and in this scenario, like most others, id rather make a higher quality product by paying a bit more then go the cheap route.  Ill have to start digging threw recipes to find a blackberry wheat i like that also goes along with the barleywine we will make.  Ive been eyeing Gordon Strongs English barleywine, maybe ill see if things match up!
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 08:56:15 AM »
I think id rather go the real fruit way rather then the extract route.  extracts in coffees etc tend to give me heart burn and in this scenario, like most others, id rather make a higher quality product by paying a bit more then go the cheap route.  Ill have to start digging threw recipes to find a blackberry wheat i like that also goes along with the barleywine we will make.  Ive been eyeing Gordon Strongs English barleywine, maybe ill see if things match up!

not familiar with it but if it's mostly two row with minimal crystal malt it should work well if you just cap the mash with ~5 lb of wheat/wheat malt and a little pils or 2 row (maybe a lb)
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 09:26:51 AM »
If you don't want to do two separate mashes you could opt for a wheat wine instead of a barleywine.

Blackberry is a good selection for a beer. It's a nicely acidic fruit with plenty of flavor after it ferments out. You'll have to play around with the partigyle recipe to figure out the grist but for the blackberry wheat I'd just start out with a simple American wheat recipe. 40-50% malted barley, 50% malted wheat and (optional) 10% munich or light crystal malt for some extra body and sweetness. You really only need hops for bittering but some of the New Zealand hops with berry flavors could make an interesting berry profile as late hop additions. Then after fermentation ends add 12-16oz blackberries per gallon and let it sit for a few weeks and bottle as usual. Freeze the fruit after purchase to break down the cell walls as this will help get more flavor out of the fruit.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2013, 08:01:08 PM »
I brewed a Blackberry Wheat last year using fresh berries and I must admit I was pretty disappointed in the result. I got a batch of berries that were some of the best blackberries I had gotten in a while, so I went and bought several pounds for a wheat beer and a mead. These were about as perfectly ripe and juicy as I've gotten from blackberries in a market. I used 1 lb/gallon of frozen/thawed berries in secondary, but the berry flavor I was hoping for just wasn't there in the finished beer.

I think the biggest issue is that blackberries tend to be very tannic/astringent. A lot of this passed through to the finished beer and this was a lot more dominant than the juicy berry flavor I was looking for. It works in a mead and would probably be fine in a beer that can use some age or has a lot of malty sweetness to balance it, but is a light, fresh wheat beer it tends to be overpowering.

I decided that if I ever tried a blackberry wheat again I would use a lot less fresh blackberry and bolster it with either red raspberries or blackberry extract. Or maybe even skip the fresh blackberries altogether and use a combo of raspberries in combination with extract. I generally prefer fresh fruit whenever possible, but I think if you use enough blackberries to get the flavor you want you will get too much bitterness/astringency from the fruit for a light-bodied beer.
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Offline Jeff M

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 09:41:16 AM »
Good to know,  I found an extract at my LHBS.  they also sell canned puree.  Should i assume the puree will react the same way as the fresh fruit?
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: Potential Parti-gyle Blackberry Wheat Recipe Help
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2013, 10:26:28 AM »
Good to know,  I found an extract at my LHBS.  they also sell canned puree.  Should i assume the puree will react the same way as the fresh fruit?

IME - the canned purees (normally in the wine section) of my LHBS are fantastic. And it saves you from pureeing/sifting fresh fruit yourself.

I've done exactly one fresh blackberry beer. I spent a lot of money at the Farmers Market, got a low yield of puree, and still ended up with seeds in my beer (but not much blackberry flavor OR color).

If you want the fruit to be the main attraction, you're going to need a lot of puree - more than you think. The flavor is quite mellow. When I make fruit beer, I add it to the keg. I'll buy 4 3-lb cans of puree, add two, and then continue adding one at a time until the flavor is to my liking. With blackberry, I wouldn't be surprised to add all 12 lbs.

Just like adding lemon juice to a fruity cocktail or dessert, adding the zest of a lemon or two will punch up the fruity flavor.
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