Author Topic: is my theory sound?  (Read 2892 times)

Offline andrew000141

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 12:22:33 PM »
Qiuckly looking at your recipe there is something wrong. An og of 1.071 for a 3 gallon batch with less than 7# of grain seems highly implausible if not impoossible.

+1 good catch!

i though so at first too but i made a post about it and everyone just said i had good efficiency, it was a kit and the expected OG was 1.056. it was a 90 minute mash though so that definitely drove my efficiency up
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Online mtnrockhopper

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 12:32:24 PM »
Assuming you have or get a good thermometer, make sure the mash is stirred well enough that the temperature is even. It is possible for it to be 155 on the top and cooler underneath or in different spots, especially if you're adding the water on top of grain in the mash tun. I always measure a couple spots, stir, measure, stir more, measure again to make sure the temps agree.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2013, 01:47:50 PM »
Qiuckly looking at your recipe there is something wrong. An og of 1.071 for a 3 gallon batch with less than 7# of grain seems highly implausible if not impoossible.

+1 good catch!

i though so at first too but i made a post about it and everyone just said i had good efficiency, it was a kit and the expected OG was 1.056. it was a 90 minute mash though so that definitely drove my efficiency up

yeah that seems suspicious to me.

say an average of 32 points per lb for the grain 7 lbs = 224 / 3gallons = 74.6 * say 85% efficiency = 63.

I guess 95% efficiency might get you close to 1.071 with 7 lbs of grain. which leads me to ask, how much are you sparging?

I find when I do a no sparge beer it has more body than if I do a single sparge or double sparge. Others may disagree.
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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2013, 01:49:24 PM »
i though so at first too but i made a post about it and everyone just said i had good efficiency, it was a kit and the expected OG was 1.056. it was a 90 minute mash though so that definitely drove my efficiency up

Which thread was that?

EDIT: I found it...
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=14284.msg181524#msg181524
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 01:52:06 PM by mtnrockhopper »
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Offline andrew000141

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2013, 01:58:06 PM »
In that particular recipe i sparged with 2.85 gallons. since then ive been using 4.75 gallons total with 1.25-1.5 quart per pound and the rest is reserved for sparging

after reading through that post again i may have had a small post boil gravity than 3, i know it didnt fill up as much as usual in my 3 gallon keg when i kegged that beer
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 02:01:03 PM by andrew000141 »
Fermenting:
Cherry melomel

In Kegs:
Saison
Irish Red
Thanksgiving Cider
Rye Pale Ale
IIPA
Ayinger Maibock clone
Moose drool clone

Bottles:
Mead

Keep your nose out of trouble and no trouble will come to you

Online mtnrockhopper

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2013, 02:07:19 PM »
Just keep at it. Experience with your own equipment is the best advice.
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Offline topher.bartos

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2013, 02:16:20 PM »
Like I said before, I don't see anything dreadfully wrong with what you're doing. Take it as a learning experience. Learn about mouthfeel; light, medium, full body. Drink some beer with different mouthfeel and brew clones of them. Maybe you'll be able to see what you need to do with your equipment to brew less watery beer. Experiment a lot and have fun.

Keep us posted.
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Online Slowbrew

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2013, 02:34:50 PM »
It's little off the wall, but could it be a carbonation issue?  I know when I hook up a keg of under carbed beer it seems off, a little thin and not as tasty.  You might try bumping up the carbonation and see if it helps fill out the flavor. 

Then again, it may be late in the day and I'm not thinking clearly.  8^)

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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2013, 02:39:00 PM »
When I want a super malty brew I mash at 162 (hey that rhymes! I'm a poet!)

I do this with my ordinary bitter, mash at 162 no sparge, aim for 1.036 and it's full bodied and delicous. you can also add some flaked oats or barley for extra body.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2013, 03:12:58 PM »
I plugged your second recipe in to BeerTools and everything is feasible.

It came out at 83% attenuation though.  What yeast did you use for each brew? 

Dave
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Offline andrew000141

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2013, 08:08:28 PM »
british ale for the brown ale and belgian abbey for the dubbel-ish that turned out to be more of a dubbel than i planned, both wyeast. Actually ive always had an issue with carbonation in my kegs, either they are pretty much dead with foam or its pretty much dead but its only foam(a little exaggeration there but its annoying nonetheless)
Fermenting:
Cherry melomel

In Kegs:
Saison
Irish Red
Thanksgiving Cider
Rye Pale Ale
IIPA
Ayinger Maibock clone
Moose drool clone

Bottles:
Mead

Keep your nose out of trouble and no trouble will come to you

Offline wingnut

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2013, 09:10:48 PM »
I think you have two seperate issues... 1st beer was just plain watery with a FG of .007.   The other beer was not really thin but felt thin because you extracted extra tannins. (at least that is what I find on my system) The tannins are making the mouthfeel more dry.  I am guessing that   you would likely have been better off to have a less efficient extract. 

In my experience, anything above 80% efficieny gets you a less  malty beer. (given the same final gravity).  I know some people would argue... and with their system they may be right, but on my system, too much efficiency gets you some subtle changes in malt flavor, and in some cases, changes in mouth feel.

On second look, the second recipe also has roasted grains..which will give a slightly drier, more acidic mouth feel. (similar effect to the high efficiency)

If you keep getting great efficiency, just adjust your recipe to have some extra long chain sugars (dextrin for instance or cara pils)  If you are still dialing in your mashing process.... check your efficiencies and try to get them to come out similar from batch to batch.  Once you do that, you can adjust recipies to fit your system.

Good luck!
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Offline narvin

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2013, 09:17:42 PM »
A mash out will not make a difference unless you take an hour (or more) to lauter. At homebrew scale it's inconsequential.

Measure your grain temperature during the mash to make sure you're maintaining temperature.  I had a friend who did 3 gallon batches in a small cooler, and due to the low thermal mass/large surface area compared to the size of the cooler he ended up 10 - 15 degrees below temperature after only a few minutes.  Beta amylase will not denature this fast, and you could be getting a much more fermentable wort than you want.  If this is what's happening, raise your strike temperature and stir for longer during dough in, or you can preheat your cooler with hot water.

Also, make sure you have a good thermometer.  Cheap digital kitchen probes from the grocery store can be off 10 degrees or more at mash temp, even if they seem accurate when measured in ice water.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 09:23:57 PM by narvin »
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Offline repo

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 10:14:30 PM »
I plugged your second recipe in to BeerTools and everything is feasible.

It came out at 83% attenuation though.  What yeast did you use for each brew? 

Dave

If you don't have any losses to trub or cold break or through your chilling method, this is possible. But I do.
Still haven't heard what your sparge water temp was?

Narvin brings up some great points too. I have seen drops of 7+ degrees in my 10 gallon mash tun when doing 3.5 gallon batches.

Offline andrew000141

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Re: is my theory sound?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 10:38:49 PM »
the temp drop may be a culprit of the brown ale as i didnt preheat my mash tun like i usually do(it was my first batch). I sparge with 170 degree water
Fermenting:
Cherry melomel

In Kegs:
Saison
Irish Red
Thanksgiving Cider
Rye Pale Ale
IIPA
Ayinger Maibock clone
Moose drool clone

Bottles:
Mead

Keep your nose out of trouble and no trouble will come to you