General Category > Extract/Partial Mash Brewing

Questions about using corn meal

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jackhorzempa:

--- Quote from: mtnrockhopper on February 01, 2013, 05:17:34 PM ---I wonder about any flavor differences with corn meal instead of whole or flaked corn.

--- End quote ---
George Fix (a long ago beer writer) wrote an article entitled: CAP - Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers. Within that article he wrote:

“The primary feature that separates this beer from all-malt continental lagers is the use of flaked maize, an unmalted cereal grain. The flakes are hardly a cheap malt substitute. Indeed, they typically cost two to three times more than domestic malt, and they are even more expensive than premium imported malts. What one gets with this specialty grain is extra strength without the satiating effects of a high-gravity beer. Alcohol by itself is essentially tasteless. Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer. The chief advantage that flakes have over corn grits or rice is that, unlike the latter, flakes do not require cooking at boiling temperatures to achieve gelatinization. Many feel that this is the key to the flakes' desirable flavoring (2).”

So, George Fix appears to be of the opinion that flaked maize has “desirable flavoring”.

Cheers!

hopfenundmalz:

--- Quote from: jackhorzempa on February 05, 2013, 10:07:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: mtnrockhopper on February 01, 2013, 05:17:34 PM ---I wonder about any flavor differences with corn meal instead of whole or flaked corn.

--- End quote ---
George Fix (a long ago beer writer) wrote an article entitled: CAP - Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers. Within that article he wrote:

“The primary feature that separates this beer from all-malt continental lagers is the use of flaked maize, an unmalted cereal grain. The flakes are hardly a cheap malt substitute. Indeed, they typically cost two to three times more than domestic malt, and they are even more expensive than premium imported malts. What one gets with this specialty grain is extra strength without the satiating effects of a high-gravity beer. Alcohol by itself is essentially tasteless. Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer. The chief advantage that flakes have over corn grits or rice is that, unlike the latter, flakes do not require cooking at boiling temperatures to achieve gelatinization. Many feel that this is the key to the flakes' desirable flavoring (2).”

So, George Fix appears to be of the opinion that flaked maize has “desirable flavoring”.

Cheers!

--- End quote ---
If by desireable he meant less flavor, then yes.

In the old days a brewery would have a cereal cooker. Now they don't have one and use flaked maize.

It might be good to do an experiment to see the results of a cereal mash vs. flaked maize.

jackhorzempa:

--- Quote from: hopfenundmalz on February 05, 2013, 10:17:29 AM ---
--- Quote from: jackhorzempa on February 05, 2013, 10:07:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: mtnrockhopper on February 01, 2013, 05:17:34 PM ---I wonder about any flavor differences with corn meal instead of whole or flaked corn.

--- End quote ---
George Fix (a long ago beer writer) wrote an article entitled: CAP - Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers. Within that article he wrote:

“The primary feature that separates this beer from all-malt continental lagers is the use of flaked maize, an unmalted cereal grain. The flakes are hardly a cheap malt substitute. Indeed, they typically cost two to three times more than domestic malt, and they are even more expensive than premium imported malts. What one gets with this specialty grain is extra strength without the satiating effects of a high-gravity beer. Alcohol by itself is essentially tasteless. Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer. The chief advantage that flakes have over corn grits or rice is that, unlike the latter, flakes do not require cooking at boiling temperatures to achieve gelatinization. Many feel that this is the key to the flakes' desirable flavoring (2).”

So, George Fix appears to be of the opinion that flaked maize has “desirable flavoring”.

Cheers!

--- End quote ---
If by desireable he meant less flavor, then yes.

In the old days a brewery would have a cereal cooker. Now they don't have one and use flaked maize.

It might be good to do an experiment to see the results of a cereal mash vs. flaked maize.

--- End quote ---

“If by desirable he meant less flavor, then yes.” I didn’t interpret it that way since in that paragraph George Fix made mention of: “Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer.” So, I think that George Fix thinks that desirable flavor = more (or better) flavor.

“In the old days a brewery would have a cereal cooker. Now they don't have one and use flaked maize.” Well, some of the regional brewers have cereal cookers. I saw the cereal cooker at Spoetzl (Shiner) Brewery when I took a tour. I would guess that on the commercial brewery scale that corn grits would be cheaper (from a material perspective) than flaked maize. As a homebrewer, I think that flaked maize is not cheap at $1.75 per lb. (as compared to $1.25 for 6-row malt).

“It might be good to do an experiment to see the results of a cereal mash vs. flaked maize.” That would indeed be a good experiment!

Cheers!

hopfenundmalz:

--- Quote from: jackhorzempa on February 05, 2013, 11:02:42 AM ---
--- Quote from: hopfenundmalz on February 05, 2013, 10:17:29 AM ---
--- Quote from: jackhorzempa on February 05, 2013, 10:07:56 AM ---
--- Quote from: mtnrockhopper on February 01, 2013, 05:17:34 PM ---I wonder about any flavor differences with corn meal instead of whole or flaked corn.

--- End quote ---
George Fix (a long ago beer writer) wrote an article entitled: CAP - Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers. Within that article he wrote:

“The primary feature that separates this beer from all-malt continental lagers is the use of flaked maize, an unmalted cereal grain. The flakes are hardly a cheap malt substitute. Indeed, they typically cost two to three times more than domestic malt, and they are even more expensive than premium imported malts. What one gets with this specialty grain is extra strength without the satiating effects of a high-gravity beer. Alcohol by itself is essentially tasteless. Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer. The chief advantage that flakes have over corn grits or rice is that, unlike the latter, flakes do not require cooking at boiling temperatures to achieve gelatinization. Many feel that this is the key to the flakes' desirable flavoring (2).”

So, George Fix appears to be of the opinion that flaked maize has “desirable flavoring”.

Cheers!

--- End quote ---
If by desireable he meant less flavor, then yes.

In the old days a brewery would have a cereal cooker. Now they don't have one and use flaked maize.

It might be good to do an experiment to see the results of a cereal mash vs. flaked maize.

--- End quote ---

“If by desirable he meant less flavor, then yes.” I didn’t interpret it that way since in that paragraph George Fix made mention of: “Nevertheless, it is a flavor carrier, enhancing the other active flavor components in a beer, as it does in this formulation. The maize also leaves a pleasant grain-like sweetness in the finished beer.” So, I think that George Fix thinks that desirable flavor = more (or better) flavor.

“In the old days a brewery would have a cereal cooker. Now they don't have one and use flaked maize.” Well, some of the regional brewers have cereal cookers. I saw the cereal cooker at Spoetzl (Shiner) Brewery when I took a tour. I would guess that on the commercial brewery scale that corn grits would be cheaper (from a material perspective) than flaked maize. As a homebrewer, I think that flaked maize is not cheap at $1.75 per lb. (as compared to $1.25 for 6-row malt).

“It might be good to do an experiment to see the results of a cereal mash vs. flaked maize.” That would indeed be a good experiment!

Cheers!

--- End quote ---
A legacy brewer like Spoetzl will have the cereal cooker from when they set up long ago. Wonder if any cereal cookers have been installed at a smaller new brewery in the last 20 years?

denny:
IIRC, one of the new breweries in town (Falling Sky) has a cereal cooker as part of their German built system.

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