[SWGG]

Ok, I usually have gotten 70% efficiency with my brews to about +/- .002 of the estimated OG. I had always batched sparged around 170-175. After reading what Denny said about sparging at 185-190, I did so yesterday with my Red IPA. My target OG was 1.070....I hit 1.078. Could this be a result of the sparge water having a higher temp? Or did I totally s*** the bed when calculating the grain bill?

2 Row Pale Malt = 9 lb 8 oz
Munich Malt = 4 lb
Flaked Oats = 1 lb
Caramel/Crystal 80L = 1 lb
Caramel/Crystal 60L = 4 oz
Caramel/Crystal 120L = 4 oz
Chocolate Malt = .5 oz

Again, these amounts were derived from calculating 70% efficiency.

No need to change your sheets just yet.   

Could be the hotter sparge rendered the remaining sugars more soluble, and you were able to extract more of them.  Sort of like when you are squeezing a bottle of maple syrup.  It comes out kinda slow at room temp... but if you put it in the microwave for a few seconds it pours a lot easier.

[fmader]

No need to change your sheets just yet.   

Could be the hotter sparge rendered the remaining sugars more soluble, and you were able to extract more of them.  Sort of like when you are squeezing a bottle of maple syrup.  It comes out kinda slow at room temp... but if you put it in the microwave for a few seconds it pours a lot easier.

This is what I am figuring. I will continue to calculate recipes at 70%. If I continue to constantly miss my gravity high over the next few brews, making it a trend, I will refigure my brew house efficiency.

[denny]

No need to change your sheets just yet.   

Could be the hotter sparge rendered the remaining sugars more soluble, and you were able to extract more of them.  Sort of like when you are squeezing a bottle of maple syrup.  It comes out kinda slow at room temp... but if you put it in the microwave for a few seconds it pours a lot easier.

I've seen hotter sparge water increase efficiency, but I don't believe it's due to reduced viscosity of the sugars.  I think it's due to the more complete gelatinization and conversion of the remaining starches.

[fmader]

I've seen hotter sparge water increase efficiency, but I don't believe it's due to reduced viscosity of the sugars.  I think it's due to the more complete gelatinization and conversion of the remaining starches.

Have you seen a gravity difference of .008 from this?

[denny]

I've seen hotter sparge water increase efficiency, but I don't believe it's due to reduced viscosity of the sugars.  I think it's due to the more complete gelatinization and conversion of the remaining starches.

Have you seen a gravity difference of .008 from this?

I don't really know what kind of gravity difference it might be since I've tracked it as efficiency over many batches.  Maybe a 3-5 % increase in efficiency.

[malzig]

I've seen hotter sparge water increase efficiency, but I don't believe it's due to reduced viscosity of the sugars.  I think it's due to the more complete gelatinization and conversion of the remaining starches.

Have you seen a gravity difference of .008 from this?

If you expected 1.070 from 70% mash efficiency, then 0.008 would be just about what you could expect to see from improved gelatinization and conversion of the remaining starches.

[SWGG]

No need to change your sheets just yet.   

Could be the hotter sparge rendered the remaining sugars more soluble, and you were able to extract more of them.  Sort of like when you are squeezing a bottle of maple syrup.  It comes out kinda slow at room temp... but if you put it in the microwave for a few seconds it pours a lot easier.

I've seen hotter sparge water increase efficiency, but I don't believe it's due to reduced viscosity of the sugars.  I think it's due to the more complete gelatinization and conversion of the remaining starches.

Interesting.  I had always thought after the first 40 minutes or so most starches were broken down.  Of course, that assumes all the available starches have been accessible.  If there are starch granules that haven't been penetrated by the water I could see where this would bump up efficiency. 

[fmader]

I think my next batch is going to be an attempt to clone Founder's Breakfast Stout. My target OG (using 70% efficiency) is 1.078. That's rather high, and I don't really want it to be any higher...especially .008 higher. I think I may recalculate this recipe for 75% efficiency. If I am going to miss my target on this one, I would rather miss this one low than high. I am thinking that I should be close to hitting the target, because I am confident that the higher sparge water did increase my efficiency.

[ynotbrusum]

Denny must be right on this.  It runs counter to the concept of lower mash temp getting more fermentables, generally, but it has been my experience, as well.  I noticed the difference when on consecutive batches of the same beer, I was low on sparge temp with the first batch (around 140F), so I "over corrected" with 190F water on the second batch and picked up a few points.  I didn't think much of it then, but I try to get sparge water at 190F now when time allows.

[topher.bartos]

I might be wrong but just because you get a couple more points from 190F sparge water doesn't mean it's fermentable. Has anybody tried using lower sparge water temperatures and holding it longer before collecting runnings?

[malzig]

Denny must be right on this.  It runs counter to the concept of lower mash temp getting more fermentables, generally, but it has been my experience, as well.

Don't confuse getting more extract with getting a more fermentable wort.  Higher mash temperatures will often yield more sugars sooner (both fermentable and nonfermentable, potentially yielding a higher OG) than lower mash temperatures, but the cooler mash will usually be more fermentable (it will finish at a lower gravity from the same OG).

[ynotbrusum]

Denny must be right on this.  It runs counter to the concept of lower mash temp getting more fermentables, generally, but it has been my experience, as well.

Don't confuse getting more extract with getting a more fermentable wort.  Higher mash temperatures will often yield more sugars sooner (both fermentable and nonfermentable, potentially yielding a higher OG) than lower mash temperatures, but the cooler mash will usually be more fermentable (it will finish at a lower gravity from the same OG).

I appreciate that, but the fact is it did yield more fermentables, too, because the FG was lower, as well.

[denny]

Denny must be right on this.  It runs counter to the concept of lower mash temp getting more fermentables, generally, but it has been my experience, as well.

Don't confuse getting more extract with getting a more fermentable wort.  Higher mash temperatures will often yield more sugars sooner (both fermentable and nonfermentable, potentially yielding a higher OG) than lower mash temperatures, but the cooler mash will usually be more fermentable (it will finish at a lower gravity from the same OG).

I have not experienced any change in fermentability by sparging with hotter water.  It's a good theory, but I haven't seen it in practice.

[ynotbrusum]

Maybe I can replicate it, again.  It may have been a slightly different variable of another kind that I didn't account for (they were successive batches of the same lager).  Maybe even generational yeast differences had an effect?

[dordway29]

Hotter sparge water will "loosen" your mash as well more effectively dissolve the sugars into your wort. I'm sure your mash efficiency was about the same but what I call "sparge potential" can change with the temperature of your sparge, as well as the length of your sparge. Be careful with hotter sparges though, you can also pull some unwanted flavors into your kettle. If you lower the ph of your sparge water using either phosphoric acid or even lactic acid you can avoid this.

To increase efficiency on higher gravity beers you can batch sparge longer and then boil longer. Works well for barleywines and such.