Author Topic: Belle Saison Dry Yeast  (Read 21480 times)

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #90 on: August 03, 2013, 07:08:31 AM »
I mashed mine at 148 for 90 minutes and it went down to 1.004 from 1.058 with this strain. I brewed two, one pitched at 64 and the bulk fermented at 68 and another fermented at 80. I preferred the cooler fermented one - way more complex yeast flavors. The warmer fermented one if fine but not as complex.

Keith, that is some great experimentation right there.  Thanks for sharing.
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

Offline 1vertical

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #91 on: August 03, 2013, 08:13:46 AM »
I mashed mine at 148 for 90 minutes and it went down to 1.004 from 1.058 with this strain. I brewed two, one pitched at 64 and the bulk fermented at 68 and another fermented at 80. I preferred the cooler fermented one - way more complex yeast flavors. The warmer fermented one if fine but not as complex.

Good to know this comparason of the temperature effects.  Thanks When I spoke of the upper
temp range for this critter, I had nothing to relate to now, we do.....good on ya.  Did you make
a huge commercial batch with the 80 degree ferment?
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

Offline jeffy

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2013, 09:58:22 AM »
That is good and timely to know, since I plan to make a late-hopped IPA tomorrow and pitch half the 10 gallon batch with this yeast and half with S-04.  I'll put both carboys in the same fridge at 60 to 65 and see what happens.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline yso191

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #93 on: August 03, 2013, 11:05:10 AM »
Thank you for the input on my recipe.  The part of brewing that I am least competent in and which seems very hard to get a handle on, is when complexity turns into a muddle.

I got the basic recipe off of the AHA Recipe site, it is the Saison Du Mont.  I changed the grain bill to drop the OG and add an orange color (hence the Vienna).  Then it was still too light SRM-wise so I added the Honey Malt for color and frankly I like sweet - it turns on my taste buds.

I kept the spices unchanged.

I'm not stating my thinking in order to say I'm right.  I actually hoping to find out where my thinking went off the tracks. 

And I will now mash at 149*, and keep the fermentation temp lower.
Steve

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #94 on: August 03, 2013, 01:44:53 PM »
Thank you for the input on my recipe.  The part of brewing that I am least competent in and which seems very hard to get a handle on, is when complexity turns into a muddle.

I got the basic recipe off of the AHA Recipe site, it is the Saison Du Mont.  I changed the grain bill to drop the OG and add an orange color (hence the Vienna).  Then it was still too light SRM-wise so I added the Honey Malt for color and frankly I like sweet - it turns on my taste buds.

I kept the spices unchanged.

I'm not stating my thinking in order to say I'm right.  I actually hoping to find out where my thinking went off the tracks. 

And I will now mash at 149*, and keep the fermentation temp lower.

Complexity:

Imagine with me. Three or four beautiful people of a sex that complements your tastes singing softly to you as you nestle into a warm soft feather bed. the heavy but comforting duvet surrounding you even as the cool evening air wafts in from the open window, a slight chill of autumn around the edges. The soft melodic voices weave harmonies around you as you drift thankfully off to sleep.

Muddled:
Ten punk rock musicians each with a guitar that has been tuned to a different key wailing away while you are wrapped tightly in space blankets in a 95* room.

Even though punk music, warm rooms, futons, and space blankets are all really nice to have around do you want them all at once?

Whereas soft melodic vocal music I can take or leave. A cool room and a warm duvet are pretty nice but if the bed is too soft it can ruin it. however all together as an experience they merge into something you might well want to do.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline yso191

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2013, 01:55:00 PM »
Hah!  Thanks Morticai, an interesting illustration.  However, I understand the definition of complex and muddled, I just don't know in recipe design what makes the tipping point.  I am really looking forward to the Grain book that will finish the Yeast, Hops, Water series - at least I hope that corrects the gaps in my understanding about this issue.  In the mean time I ask questions here.
Steve

Offline bboy9000

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2013, 02:02:49 PM »
...I just don't know in recipe design what makes the tipping point.

I'm still working on that too.  I found the Nov./Dec. 2012 Zymurgy article "Brewing on the Ones," by Drew Beechum helpful.  Here's his Brewing on the Ones Presentation at NHC 2012:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sSKHzmhrzY
Brian
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2013, 02:11:19 PM »
Hah!  Thanks Morticai, an interesting illustration.  However, I understand the definition of complex and muddled, I just don't know in recipe design what makes the tipping point.  I am really looking forward to the Grain book that will finish the Yeast, Hops, Water series - at least I hope that corrects the gaps in my understanding about this issue.  In the mean time I ask questions here.

I think complexity comes when you combine subtle characteristics that, by themselves would not make much impact (soft melodic vocal music) and perhaps 1 bold structured characteristic that provides the platform for the rest. Often times people pick big bold flavours that they really like and decide that if they put those together it will be complex. That's when things get muddled.

Take farmhouse style brews. they tend to be very complex in flavour and the recipe itself can look very complex, 1 or even 2 or 3 raw adjuncts, some simple sugars, lots of hops early and late. Add it a very complex and lively yeast character and there is a lot going on.

But raw adjuncts tend to be pretty subtle in the final product, perhaps some mild phenolic spiceyness from rye, creaminess from oats, or tartness from wheat but never to the 'Whoa, Wheat!' level. I do about 24%-25%

I think with farmhouse style the backbone, the one bold, structural component is the yeast. It is spicey all by itself. if you are using a pure strain you get some spice, and fruit, and maybe a touch of tartness (the belle will give you some citric type tartness for sure). If you use a yeast blend like many farmhouse brewers the yeast complexity gets even greater with some brett in there lending farmyard funk.

I like light (10L) munich for adjusting color because it gives a subtle toasty bready sweet note but nothing over the top like a dark crystal. It supports the other players by giving the malt base some weight. i don't actually have a preference between pils and pale for the remainder of my grist although if you like a little perceived sweetness pils can provide that. I go with about 24-25% munich to about 36-37% other base.

the rest of the fermentables should be from simple sugars. I insist still on using something more interesting than table sugar even though I am not convinced it makes any significant difference. But when aiming for complexity sometimes things that are so subtle you aren't even sure you notice them make a big difference. (like when working with nutmeg always add a little cinnamon, you may not notice the cinnamon but it will help make the nutmeg pop) So I like honey, or raw sugar, rapidura, maple syrup (can emulate some wood character if you  are rich enough to use a bunch), coconut sugar.

I have not found a huge need for spices yet. but I haven't experimented with them much either so I could well change my mind about that. They do tend to be easy to over do.
"Creativity is the residue of wasted time" - A. Einstein

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Offline yso191

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #98 on: August 03, 2013, 02:23:25 PM »
Wow, thanks Morticai, that really helps!  I think I'll print your response for future reference.
Steve

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #99 on: August 03, 2013, 06:09:14 PM »
Brewing on the Ones! Great lesson for intermediate brewers trying to get past "brown" flavored beer. I'm convinced that usually less is more

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #100 on: August 03, 2013, 06:26:39 PM »
+1 to less is more.  Several of my beers use no more than base malt plus 1 or 2 other malts. Too many specialty malts in alot of styles give you the muddy beer effect.
Jon H.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #101 on: August 03, 2013, 06:36:17 PM »
I mashed mine at 148 for 90 minutes and it went down to 1.004 from 1.058 with this strain. I brewed two, one pitched at 64 and the bulk fermented at 68 and another fermented at 80. I preferred the cooler fermented one - way more complex yeast flavors. The warmer fermented one if fine but not as complex.

Good to know this comparason of the temperature effects.  Thanks When I spoke of the upper
temp range for this critter, I had nothing to relate to now, we do.....good on ya.  Did you make
a huge commercial batch with the 80 degree ferment?

No, this is a good point. I fermented the one I pitched on the cool side in a 12 bbl (372 gallon) batch. The one I fermented warmer was a 12 gallon batch. Both were good, just liked the former one better. But could have something to do with volumes.

I plan on doing a good bit of experiment on 12 gallon batches with this strain in the next few months and I will post what I find here! Looking forward to what you all find as well.
Keith Y.
Self appointed "All Grain" section pruner

Offline yso191

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #102 on: August 07, 2013, 11:55:13 AM »
I want to input accurate info into BeerSmith.   Can someone tell me what the attenuation range is for this yeast?
Steve

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #103 on: August 07, 2013, 12:12:54 PM »
I don't have an exact number, but apparent attenuation is really high with this yeast.  It's like 95%.
Dave

"This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption. Let us give praise to our Maker, and glory to His bounty, by learning about... BEER!" - Friar Tuck (Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves)

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Belle Saison Dry Yeast
« Reply #104 on: August 07, 2013, 12:42:24 PM »
I don't have an exact number, but apparent attenuation is really high with this yeast.  It's like 95%.

or 100%. My batch finished at 1.000, maybe a hair under so 101%?
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