Author Topic: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?  (Read 39090 times)

Offline phunhog

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #120 on: February 28, 2013, 10:22:20 AM »
+1!!!!   And that is what a higher entry fee will do..people will be sending the beers that they feel are the best of the best.  It will help lower the amount of people "carpet bombing" the competition with every beer they have brewed in the last 6 months.   The brewers who brew beers specifically for the NHC,and have put in many hours refining and brewing will pay the higher entrance fees. The guys just looking for feedback will opt out and find other comps.

I don't agree with this.  This year, I specifically scheduled my brew days for the competition, entered beers that I thought could win ( some have won this year including NHC ).  Even though I paid more than $30 to register my entries this year, if I had to pay $30 to register one, I just wouldn't bother...even if I had won with that beer throughout the year.  I also think the banquet awards ceremony wouldn't be as exciting as it is now, knowing that anyone has a chance to win, not just the ones with the means (i.e. $$)

With the cost to attend NHC every year going up, it just wouldn't be worth it to me.
I have never gone to the NHC and don't plan to unless it is in my backyard. It's just too expensive when you factor in the conference, hotel, and airfare/gas.  I find it funny that people are willing to spend hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to attend the NHC but balk at raising entry fees by 15-30 dollars per entry.  The net result is that you send 4-5 of your best beers instead of 10 beers. It opens up the field so that more brewers can send in their best beers.  I think you are fooling yourself if you think the winners of the NHC are the best of the best when many, many people were shut out of entering all together.  This year it will be the best of the best of people who were fortunate to get a slot.  Might as well make it a random lottery.....

Offline ghumphrey

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #121 on: February 28, 2013, 10:23:01 AM »
As the "random guy in Colorado" I don't feel any need to defend myself or the software. The 100s of competitions that are using or have used this OPEN SOURCE and FREE software are more testament to its success than the issues experienced with the NHC registration on Tuesday.

I was honored that the AHA wanted to use the software for the NHC. I stand by it and welcome anyone's input into its continued development - like I said, it's open source. Admittedly, I am a self-taught php "programmer" - however, I saw a need for a particular product and filled that need for my own uses initially. I've put literally 1000s of hours into the continued development and happily dove into helping the AHA, modifying it to fit their needs.

It's true that the events of the 26th necessitate some serious consideration and remediation. Believe me, I've been in constant contact with the folks at the AHA since 1:05 PM on Tuesday. They are working long hours at 110% to make things right, analyze what went wrong, and figure our what to do about.

At least this "random guy in Colorado" did something about helping the homebrewing community in a way he feels reasonably competent instead of complaining about it in some forum.

That's all I am going to say about the subject.

Thanks,

Geoff
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 10:26:04 AM by brewblogger »
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Offline bonjour

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #122 on: February 28, 2013, 10:25:19 AM »
Thanks Geoff

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Offline noghri_vir

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #123 on: February 28, 2013, 10:29:45 AM »
They should have either had cascading openings for each of the regions which could have handled the server load better

Except that anybody can enter any region, so everybody would just try to enter in the first opened region at the same time.

Limit the first day to only be open to AHA members, and that you could only enter in your home region. Then on the second day it would be open to non AHA members and you could enter any region you want.

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #124 on: February 28, 2013, 10:47:43 AM »
Yes, I missed a word there.  I should have said "AHA sanctioned BJCP comps".  Have a set of minimum standards (# of entries, quantity/quality of judges, years in existence, whatever else you want).  Minimal additional effort on the AHA's part to "ride herd" on something like that.
Number of entries is an easy metric to track, quantity/quality of judges is harder . . . I think this would be more work than you are making it out to be.
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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #125 on: February 28, 2013, 11:03:38 AM »
With the cost to attend NHC every year going up, it just wouldn't be worth it to me.
Can you be more specific? 
Conference cost, Hotel cost, or Travel cost?
The first one, Conference cost, has had very few increases, Hotel, we have a little control over and have held the increases down, travel we have no influence on.

Fred,

I was referring to the total cost to attend, which I realize the AHA doesn't have a lot of control over.  It was not meant to offend or suggest the AHA, GC, or local committees aren't doing a great job setting these events up...they are.

Thanks!
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Offline theDarkSide

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #126 on: February 28, 2013, 11:24:17 AM »
I think you are fooling yourself if you think the winners of the NHC are the best of the best when many, many people were shut out of entering all together.  This year it will be the best of the best of people who were fortunate to get a slot.  Might as well make it a random lottery.....

I don't think anyone is fooling themselves, but to say that winning a medal doesn't grant you some standing because you were lucky to get in when others didn't is a little insulting.  I definitely admit I am not the best of the best, but do the best I can and try to improve.  Many of the best brewers out there don't even compete, so what does that say about last year's winners?  Again, some got shut out which is unfortunately,  but entering beers that I've been brewing over the past 6 months in preparation for the competition was a priority to me.  So I made sure I was available when registration opened.  And I do not "carpet bomb".  I had two other beers I could have entered but didn't because I didn't feel like they were worthy.

What about the brewers who don't attend NHC because they can't afford it until it's in their backyard so they can limit the expense of travel, and share a room with 3 other people to cut down on cost?  If they decide $30 is too steep for a brewing competition, is there beer not considered the best of the best?

And it's because we are willing to spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars to attend the greatest homebrew event in the world that we balk at increasing the cost even more by doubling the entry fee for competition.  Again, if it happens, I just won't enter.  But I will still attend NHC and have a great time.

NHC is one of the comps I try to enter each year.  Other ones I will enter will either be local, or if someone I know from The Brewing Network is calling for entries and it fits my timeline.

Based on the responses from Tom, Ron, Fred, and others, I know the opinions on both sides will get their day in court and hopefully the outcome will benefit the membership as a whole.

edit:  although I think Tom will take a position opposing me because he hates Belichick  ;D
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 11:27:19 AM by theDarkSide »
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Offline snowtiger87

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #127 on: February 28, 2013, 11:47:33 AM »
I would not pay more to enter a beer than it cost my for ingredients to make the beer. At $30 an entry that is the case. At $12 an entry it is already the most expensive contest that I enter.

My recommendations

1) Limit entries to 5

2) Early registration for AHA members

3) Day 1 entry for AHA members only

4) Start on a weekend or at night
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Offline Bruce B

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #128 on: February 28, 2013, 11:51:59 AM »
Quote
I meant by them not being able to get a beer in the competition, what's their motivation to help out with the rest of the competition? Last year I wasn't able to get a beer in, so I never felt the need to help out and planned on heading skiing that weekend instead. I only judged once the organizer started begging for judges and I did so more as a favor to him, not the NHC.

The two years I was the organizer up here I heard the same type of stories from many of our BJCP judges in the area. They didn't have a beer in the contest so they didn't feel the need to give back.

Wow.  If this is what's stopping people from judging then adding an additional qualifying location would seem  to only be a temporary solution.  Not everyone can move on to the final round so what's to stop people from judging if they are able to submit an entry but unable to move on to the finals?
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Offline AleForce

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #129 on: February 28, 2013, 12:00:34 PM »
I would not pay more to enter a beer than it cost my for ingredients to make the beer. At $30 an entry that is the case. At $12 an entry it is already the most expensive contest that I enter.

My recommendations

1) Limit entries to 5

2) Early registration for AHA members

3) Day 1 entry for AHA members only

4) Start on a weekend or at night

+1
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #130 on: February 28, 2013, 12:06:00 PM »
edit:  although I think Tom will take a position opposing me because he hates Belichick  ;D
I'm pretty sure I saw you video taping the brewers working on their recipes at the last brew day!
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #131 on: February 28, 2013, 12:51:44 PM »
At least this "random guy in Colorado" did something about helping the homebrewing community in a way he feels reasonably competent instead of complaining about it in some forum.

That's all I am going to say about the subject.

Thanks,

Geoff

BOOM.

I'm all about some of the proposed changes, but blaming Geoff for this is not entirely fair. He's right - nearly everyone uses this software for their competitions. And with how many complaints? The AHA should have known that this would have been a high demand time and required (paid) for server space to accommodate.

If you want to help - volunteer at your nearest judging center. Lord knows we will need all the help we can get! BTW, if you come and help in KC, we may or may not have smoked brisket for lunch on Saturday... just sayin'.  ;D
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #132 on: February 28, 2013, 01:06:22 PM »
I would not pay more to enter a beer than it cost my for ingredients to make the beer. At $30 an entry that is the case. At $12 an entry it is already the most expensive contest that I enter.

My recommendations

1) Limit entries to 5

2) Early registration for AHA members

3) Day 1 entry for AHA members only

4) Start on a weekend or at night

+1
Dave Zach

Offline gsandel

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #133 on: February 28, 2013, 01:18:44 PM »
Quote
Last year I had an O'fest that got a 42 in a local competition with >1000 entries. In the first round it got a 33. Sent a keg to club night, and some guys named Mitch Steele and Tasty McDole were behind our booth when I got back, with lots of questions about the beer along with a lot of praise. That was my reward last year.

That is the coolest story ever!  I would trade a medal for that feedback (of a couple of people that I hold in high regard/respect) any day.  Unfortunately, I don't brew enough to share so prolifically, so a couple bottles here and there make more sense (perfect for a competition).

I am very close to being done with NHC, as a competitor at least, beer is a social thing anyway.
You wouldn't believe the things I've seen...

Offline weithman5

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #134 on: February 28, 2013, 01:27:53 PM »

 how many entries (1-82) you would like to enter. 


i still have a problem with huge number of entries per competitor, though i know that there are probably only a few who do that.  decide which type of dark lager you brewed and enter it once, it doesn't need to be in all three categories
Don AHA member