Author Topic: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?  (Read 38966 times)

Offline youknow

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #150 on: March 01, 2013, 08:22:23 AM »
I can't find the answer to this question anywhere, may as well ask here... Are we sure that this competition is full? I've been checking back every hour or so, but there hasn't been an official update in 2 days.

Online theDarkSide

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NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #151 on: March 01, 2013, 08:30:49 AM »
There are a lot of open spots in some regions but I'm not sure if the website numbers have been updated.  The AHA also said they are shifting some of the oversold region's entries elsewhere.  Some people have commented on the BN forum that they received emails from Gary regarding reassignment, so my guess is they are still working on it.
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Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #152 on: March 01, 2013, 08:35:26 AM »
I can't find the answer to this question anywhere, may as well ask here... Are we sure that this competition is full? I've been checking back every hour or so, but there hasn't been an official update in 2 days.

If we trust the numbers shown on the sites for the 11 regions, 7400+ entries are shown in the system.  90% full.  At the rate it was going on Tueday it would have been full within a very short time.  Having more than 8250 entries in the system would have been a disaster, as who do you pick to kick out?  They shut it down and can work on moving entries from overcrowded regions before worrying about filling that last 10%.  I imagine a few will refuse to ship, having planned to drop off at the local comp, and a few additional spaces will open up.  But I would be shocked if there are more than 1000 spots left when re-opened, again assuming the 7400+ number is correct.

Online theDarkSide

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NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #153 on: March 01, 2013, 08:39:13 AM »
Update posted on Facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10151335533118310&id=19834173309

edit:  Here's the text of the posting ( too hard to do from my phone )

NHC Registration Update: The AHA continues to actively troubleshoot the problems associated with this year's National Homebrew Competition (NHC) registration. We are sorry that the progress is not faster; at this point, the AHA is focused on taking the time necessary to get this right rather than rushing through the remediation process. We know those of you with entries are anxious for an update on their status.

Overpayments and other payment issues were among the AHA's priorities to address. As of Friday, March 1, we believe we have resolved most overpayment issues, and are working to resolve the remaining overpayments as soon as possible. If you experienced a payment issue, you should have received a credit (refund) notice from the AHA via our payment processor, or will receive one soon. (Of course, a statement or processing by your financial institution is subject to their policies and practices.)

Another step in the clean-up process has involved updating the competition database to reflect all paid entries as, in fact, paid. This is now complete. This leaves some entries in the system that are still unpaid, whether due to the entrant's selected region being at capacity or due to other issues. As troubleshooting continues, rest assured that all currently registered entries (paid and unpaid) will have an opportunity to be judged in the competition. The AHA will be in touch directly with everyone who registered in the system within the next several business days.

What's next?
Due to the problems with registration, some judge centers mistakenly accepted more entries than the designated limit for judging. The AHA is currently finalizing and executing a plan to reassign entries among the judge centers. As soon as possible, entrants will be contacted directly if their entry(s) needs to be reassigned to an alternate region. This communication will outline the steps to follow to accept and finalize the reassignment.

Once again, please accept the AHA staff's apologies for the failures and frustrations of this year’s registration and payment system.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 08:45:54 AM by theDarkSide »
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #154 on: March 01, 2013, 10:55:52 AM »
I dunno - it sounds like, unless I misunderstood, that the real problem is the lack of judges overall. If you drop the BJCP requirement (and the categories), you could have anybody come in who had a reasonable knowledge of beer.

That's EXACTLY the root of the problem here. Not enough volunteers or judges to keep pace with demand.

Software/server issues are a simple fix. Increasing the amount of entries to keep pace with demand is not. (The way I see it, demand will continue to increase no matter the restrictions you put on entries or fees.)

If we all want to enter this thing, we should all help out. Steward, take the BJCP entrance exam, help in some way other than posting your opinions (while sometimes valid and helpful) to the forum. If we can't decrease demand, we need to increase the available supply. That "supply" is controlled by the amount of help a region can receive.

Is it easy, cheap or always a huge amount of fun to go through the BJCP training, exam(s) and judging throughout your region? Absolutely not.

Can you do it? Hell yeah!

Will you meet a lot of awesome people in the process? I've made friends all over the country through the AHA and BJCP - I bet you can too.

As an aside, dropping the BJCP requirement will not improve the quality of anything. I have stacks upon stacks of score sheets from non-BJCP "Experienced Judges" that say things like Aroma: smoke. Flavor: Smoke. Mouthfeel: Good.  These are things I am not looking for when I pay upwards of $12 an entry plus shipping.
Amanda Kertz
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #155 on: March 01, 2013, 11:00:19 AM »
If you enter enough competitions you eventually realize that you need to step up to the judging side of the competitions. No competitions without the entrants, the judges/stewards/registrars/organizers.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline rjharper

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #156 on: March 01, 2013, 11:02:20 AM »
I dunno - it sounds like, unless I misunderstood, that the real problem is the lack of judges overall. If you drop the BJCP requirement (and the categories), you could have anybody come in who had a reasonable knowledge of beer.

That's EXACTLY the root of the problem here. Not enough volunteers or judges to keep pace with demand.

...

Is it easy, cheap or always a huge amount of fun to go through the BJCP training, exam(s) and judging throughout your region? Absolutely not.

This. But it's also the problem that waiting lists to get into BJCP exams and classes here in OK are measured in years.

Offline bonjour

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #157 on: March 01, 2013, 11:09:22 AM »
This. But it's also the problem that waiting lists to get into BJCP exams and classes here in OK are measured in years.
If you are willing to host one, i'll help you set it up  PM me

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Offline udubdawg

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #158 on: March 01, 2013, 11:18:16 AM »
This. But it's also the problem that waiting lists to get into BJCP exams and classes here in OK are measured in years.
If you are willing to host one, i'll help you set it up  PM me

Fred

if I knew I could get an exam by the end of the year I could fill it up within a week IMO.  I'm willing to be a Proctor but the next closest National judge is 165 miles away.  I'm sure I could get someone from KC/Tulsa to make the drive, but I haven't seen the point when 90% of interest in BJCP dies when I tell people the wait period...

cheers--
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Offline bonjour

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #159 on: March 01, 2013, 11:26:04 AM »
This. But it's also the problem that waiting lists to get into BJCP exams and classes here in OK are measured in years.
If you are willing to host one, i'll help you set it up  PM me

Fred

if I knew I could get an exam by the end of the year I could fill it up within a week IMO.  I'm willing to be a Proctor but the next closest National judge is 165 miles away.  I'm sure I could get someone from KC/Tulsa to make the drive, but I haven't seen the point when 90% of interest in BJCP dies when I tell people the wait period...

cheers--
--Michael
I run a series of classes 15-16 approx every other week, 10+ beers per session + tech topics.

All the beers are classic styles and I do 180-200 different brews over the series.
Exam follows the class.

again PM me and i'll help you set it up.
Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline tschmidlin

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #160 on: March 01, 2013, 11:46:07 AM »
This. But it's also the problem that waiting lists to get into BJCP exams and classes here in OK are measured in years.
If you are willing to host one, i'll help you set it up  PM me

Fred

if I knew I could get an exam by the end of the year I could fill it up within a week IMO.  I'm willing to be a Proctor but the next closest National judge is 165 miles away.  I'm sure I could get someone from KC/Tulsa to make the drive, but I haven't seen the point when 90% of interest in BJCP dies when I tell people the wait period...

cheers--
--Michael
Having a second national judge is desired but not required to hold an exam.
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Offline phillamb168

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NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #161 on: March 02, 2013, 12:07:20 AM »
Quote from: AmandaK
As an aside, dropping the BJCP requirement will not improve the quality of anything. I have stacks upon stacks of score sheets from non-BJCP "Experienced Judges" that say things like Aroma: smoke. Flavor: Smoke. Mouthfeel: Good.  These are things I am not looking for when I pay upwards of $12 an entry plus shipping.

As I said in my previous post, there would be 2 comps, one for technical review and one for enjoyment/pleasure. You would not use the same scoresheet for both.

The overall issue as I see it is not one of quality but of quantity. You need more rear ends in seats, tasting comp entries, you do that by modifying the way comps are done. I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that just because you're BJCP doesn't mean you're going to be an excellent judge, and just because you don't have BJCP doesn't mean you're going to do a crap job on judging.

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« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 12:09:39 AM by phillamb168 »
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Offline AmandaK

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #162 on: March 02, 2013, 08:24:34 AM »
This. But it's also the problem that waiting lists to get into BJCP exams and classes here in OK are measured in years.
If you are willing to host one, i'll help you set it up  PM me

Fred

if I knew I could get an exam by the end of the year I could fill it up within a week IMO.  I'm willing to be a Proctor but the next closest National judge is 165 miles away.  I'm sure I could get someone from KC/Tulsa to make the drive, but I haven't seen the point when 90% of interest in BJCP dies when I tell people the wait period...

cheers--
--Michael

I'll be National by the end of the year and would be willing to help. PM if you want.
Amanda Kertz
Kansas City Bier Meister
BJCP National

Offline phunhog

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #163 on: March 03, 2013, 01:34:08 AM »
I dunno - it sounds like, unless I misunderstood, that the real problem is the lack of judges overall. If you drop the BJCP requirement (and the categories), you could have anybody come in who had a reasonable knowledge of beer.

That's EXACTLY the root of the problem here. Not enough volunteers or judges to keep pace with demand.

Software/server issues are a simple fix. Increasing the amount of entries to keep pace with demand is not. (The way I see it, demand will continue to increase no matter the restrictions you put on entries or fees.)

If we all want to enter this thing, we should all help out. Steward, take the BJCP entrance exam, help in some way other than posting your opinions (while sometimes valid and helpful) to the forum. If we can't decrease demand, we need to increase the available supply. That "supply" is controlled by the amount of help a region can receive.

Is it easy, cheap or always a huge amount of fun to go through the BJCP training, exam(s) and judging throughout your region? Absolutely not.

Can you do it? Hell yeah!

Will you meet a lot of awesome people in the process? I've made friends all over the country through the AHA and BJCP - I bet you can too.

As an aside, dropping the BJCP requirement will not improve the quality of anything. I have stacks upon stacks of score sheets from non-BJCP "Experienced Judges" that say things like Aroma: smoke. Flavor: Smoke. Mouthfeel: Good.  These are things I am not looking for when I pay upwards of $12 an entry plus shipping.
Very good points!! I have started down the BJCP path, currently a Provisional Judge and have judged in exactly one comp!!  I think the BJCP is a hangup for a lot of would-be judges.  I am scheduled for my tasting in August....3 hours from my house. The BJCP is only attractive to the hardcore homebrewers who are willing to drive hours just to take a test.....and wait six months for the results.  Most comps attract a wide range of brewers with different levels of committment to the hobby. I look at the guys in my club.....most brew once a month if that and it is a hobby....not a lifestyle. Heck our President and BJCP Certified Judge hasn't brewed in over a year. He just can't find the time between work and family committments.  I am interested in the BJCP because it will help me become a better brewer.  I would like to say that once I pass the tasting exam I will judge all the time but that's not reality. The reality is that I will judge if the comp is within an hour of where I live. So that means 2-3x a year....maybe.

Offline jeffy

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Re: NHC 2013 Entry Problems - Possible Solutions?
« Reply #164 on: March 03, 2013, 07:14:50 AM »
FWIW the tasting exam we had in December has been graded and returned already.  Although the waiting list for the exam is pretty long, the grading is coming back faster with the new format.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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